So recently Ive been reading a lot about recent Russian/Soviet military conflicts such as Afghanistan, Chechnya, and Georgia. In all of these conflicts, the AK74 was the dominant assault rifle, so I ended up doing a little research on that gun as well. I have been quite surprised by its many positive characteristics. The Ak74 is as rugged and "inexpensive" as any 47 variant, but the ammo has many of the same perks as 5.56x45mm and yet it's as inexpensive as 7.62x39mm!

...ok.

The problem is that if importation sources dry up, or Russia goes to war with someone, 5.45mm is going to become increasingly rare.

Also, at least most of the ammunition loads for the 5.45 ammunition suck ballistically, so I doubt you'll have particularly powerful ammunition anyway.

Of course, it seems like it'd made a great trainer.

I'v HEARD you can size down .224'' bullets and size down .223 brass.

The problem is that if importation sources dry up, or Russia goes to war with someone, 5.45mm is going to become increasingly rare.

Ths and also you have to wonder why all the countries that used the ak74 abandoned it and went back to the ak47.

Ths and also you have to wonder why all the countries that used the ak74 abandoned it and went back to the ak47.

They got tired of shooting sub-.22 rounds? :D

Also, at least most of the ammunition loads for the 5.45 ammunition suck ballistically, so I doubt you'll have particularly powerful ammunition anyway.

I don't know, the Mujahideen in Afghanistan called it "the poison bullet" because of it's tendency to yaw violently in its terminal phase due to the length of the bullet itself. I think within it's realistic effective range, it can be just as good as 5.56 NATO, but I don't have a whole lot of experience with this cartridge.

They got tired of shooting sub-.22 rounds? :D

i never even thought about that. it is smaller than .22 cal. haha that is probably why.

I don't know, the Mujahideen in Afghanistan called it "the poison bullet" because of it's tendency to yaw violently in its terminal phase due to the length of the bullet itself. I think within it's realistic effective range, it can be just as good as 5.56 NATO, but I don't have a whole lot of experience with this cartridge.

Just looking at Dr. Martin Fackler's ballistics work on this cartridge with gelatin, it doesn't seem as impressive as the Mujahadeen claimed. I'm thinking it might be about as worrisome as all those caves filled with the WMD's the Afghani Taliban used to claim they had, and how the US better shake in its boots.

Ehh, still a cartridge worth considering given it's price of $110 for a sealed tin. What does suck is if you do feel undergunned, there is no option to switch to a heavier load like you could with a 5.56 by getting the 77 grain MK262.

Still, I wouldn't feel too incapable with a 74 (or derivative thereof). Remember, the 5.56 NATO may not "reliably" fragment and cause additional wound cavities either, but it seems like people are generally over the "5.56 is only a rodent killing cartridge" bandwagon anyway. Hell, regardless of what the case may be, if I was in the need for a PDW, I'd take that over a pistol cartridge carbine or handgun any day.

You're too late. Ak74's were cheap. Two years ago. 5.45x39 was cheap. A year ago.

People caught onto it and now there are no affordable AK-74s out there, and the price of the ammo is rapidly approaching the same price as 7.62x39. It's not worth getting into at this point in the game for economic reasons. If you want one because you like the caliber or the weapon, fine. Just don't think you are going to be saving a lot of money, because you aren't going to be.

I can't see 5.45 ammo staying cheap long enough to justify the purchase. Treat yourself to an AR-15 derivative instead.

I can't see 5.45 ammo staying cheap long enough to justify the purchase. Treat yourself to an AR-15 derivative instead.

i agree, build an ar15. it is just a little more than a mini14/30 or ak to build a budget ar15.

Well on a Gunbroker I just saw an AK that shot 5.56 NATO. So those guys that argue that they like the AK but don't like the foriegn ammuntion it shoots. Here ya go, best of both worlds.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=118652921

Link isn't likely to last long since its got 4 minutes left at the time I'm posting this.

Well on a Gunbroker I just saw an AK that shot 5.56 NATO. So those guys that argue that they like the AK but don't like the foriegn ammuntion it shoots. Here ya go, best of both worlds.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=118652921

Link isn't likely to last long since its got 4 minutes left at the time I'm posting this.

Apparently you have never heard of a saiga .223. An AKM chambered in .223/5.56 is nothing new.

Apparently you have never heard of a saiga .223. An AKM chambered in .223/5.56 is nothing new.

Yeah I know but Saiga's can't hold 30 round mags and I've heard its a pain in the ass to change the stock. I know you can get kits to convert it, to hold 30 round mags. Is it really worth all that trouble when you can get one that already does it for a better price?

Well on a Gunbroker I just saw an AK that shot 5.56 NATO. So those guys that argue that they like the AK but don't like the foriegn ammuntion it shoots. Here ya go, best of both worlds.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=118652921

Link isn't likely to last long since its got 4 minutes left at the time I'm posting this.

A friend of mine has one. His doesn't cycle without fullpower 5.56 milsurp ammunition, the magazines are expensive and rare, and he just doesn't like it.

A friend of mine has one. His doesn't cycle without fullpower 5.56 milsurp ammunition, the magazines are expensive and rare, and he just doesn't like it.

Damn, that sucks. I didn't realize that finding magazines of that type would be rare.

Sorry my knowledge is on ammo is not good but I got another question. Everyone talks about the ATF could possibly stop importation of foriegn ammunition. So how come there isn't anyone that produces Russian type ammunition? What about the people that reload their brass, wouldn't that fix the issues?

Expensive, yes: http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=25_35&sort=20a&page=1

Yeah I know but Saiga's can't hold 30 round mags and I've heard its a pain in the ass to change the stock. I know you can get kits to convert it, to hold 30 round mags. Is it really worth all that trouble when you can get one that already does it for a better price?

all you need to do is add a feed ramp and lightly modify the ak mags for the 7.62x39 version. With mine instead of adding a feed ramp i had my uncle weld 2 metal beads onto the mag and then I grinded it to a ramp shape with the grinding wheel.
Promag makes saiga 7.62x39 30rd mags now so i am sure .223 versions are on their way.
And you cant get kits to do a conversion you just have to convert the rifle your self. It is pretty simple to do the saiga conversion. i dont mind having a regular sporter stock on my rifle it does not give any more advantage except that it looks good. As random looney said that rifle you are talking about has its drawbacks also.
And i was wrong they already have promag .223 mags for $20!!!!!
www.topglock.com/item/85054_Promag_High_Capacity_Magazine_PROMAG_SAIGA_5 56NATO_30RD_BLK.aspx
So the argument that there are no 30 round saiga .223 mags fails
i paid 20$ for my 7.62x39 saiga promag and i can attest that it functions flawlessly with no modification:
www.topglock.com/item/85053_Promag_High_Capacity_Magazine_PROMAG_SAIGA_7 62X39_30RD_BLK.aspx

all you need to do is add a feed ramp and lightly modify the ak mags for the 7.62x39 version. With mine instead of adding a feed ramp i had my uncle weld 2 metal beads onto the mag and then I grinded it to a ramp shape with the grinding wheel.
Promag makes saiga 7.62x39 30rd mags now so i am sure .223 versions are on their way.
And you cant get kits to do a conversion you just have to convert the rifle your self. It is pretty simple to do the saiga conversion. i dont mind having a regular sporter stock on my rifle it does not give any more advantage except that it looks good. As random looney said that rifle you are talking about has its drawbacks also.
And i was wrong they already have promag .223 mags for $20!!!!!
www.topglock.com/item/85054_Promag_High_Capacity_Magazine_PROMAG_SAIGA_5 56NATO_30RD_BLK.aspx
So the argument that there are no 30 round saiga .223 mags fails
i paid 20$ for my 7.62x39 saiga promag and i can attest that it functions flawlessly with no modification:
www.topglock.com/item/85053_Promag_High_Capacity_Magazine_PROMAG_SAIGA_7 62X39_30RD_BLK.aspx

Your shitting me... I wasted 100$ on ten promags that suck royal dick. They really work for siaga? For AK they suck.

Your shitting me... I wasted 100$ on ten promags that suck royal dick. They really work for siaga? For AK they suck.

Yeah I can only attest to one working as i bought 1. But if they do not function correctly send those puppies back for a replacement of refund.
The saiga 7.62x39 is not my shtf rifle so I don't really need more. I saw that they finally came out with them so i thought I would buy 1 since it was $19.99 and test it out. Works great though. I don't know how long they will hold up because I only did a light use/range test.
but if you have a rgular ak they may or may not function in it. i have heard that saiga mags will function in a regular ak but not vice versa.

Yeah I can only attest to one working as i bought 1. But if they do not function correctly send those puppies back for a replacement of refund.
The saiga 7.62x39 is not my shtf rifle so I don't really need more. I saw that they finally came out with them so i thought I would buy 1 since it was $19.99 and test it out. Works great though. I don't know how long they will hold up because I only did a light use/range test.
but if you have a rgular ak they may or may not function in it. i have heard that saiga mags will function in a regular ak but not vice versa.

They are strong as hell though. I managed about 80 AK push ups on mine before it cracked. I put it in the microwave for about 5 min. (without springs for safety) without much melting, and I ran over one with the Suzuki. It still had the same shit reliability after those tests, so I guess it was reliably unreliable. :p