is the titanium specially treated to make it armor grade?

sheet metal needs to forged and heat treated to do any thing, is the same true for titanium? steel helmets are only 1.5mm thick, but if you ever try drilling through one its like using a completely edgeless drill bit.

is titanium sheet metal even available to the public?

Yes and yes.

sheet metal needs to forged and heat treated to do any thing, is the same true for titanium? steel helmets are only 1.5mm thick, but if you ever try drilling through one its like using a completely edgeless drill bit.


Cant say Ive tried it, sounds like an awesome test though.

I just remember once with my dad we were trying to put wooden handle halves on a new machete blade. But the drill bits refused to go through at all, and several broke.
So my old man goes to get his trust AR15, clamps the blade against a tree and *bang* *bang*, two point blank shots later, holes were done.

So where a drill might not have enough energy to bore it, a couple of old M193's surely will.:D.

my ar15 went through 1/4 mild steel plates i had used to make reactive hand gun targets. they where just cheap Russian soft points too

I believe it.

However at 400 meters it often fails to penetrate automotive sheet metal.

my ar15 went through 1/4 mild steel plates i had used to make reactive hand gun targets. they where just cheap Russian soft points too

i have had a .223 pierce over a 1/4inch of scrap steel. it was a steel box shape. it would go in one side and then get stopped at the other with a nice ping noise. It also made a dimple on the other side.

I believe it.

However at 400 meters it often fails to penetrate automotive sheet metal.

Bullshit. Plain and simple. Even the 45gr JHP's I shoot would do it, and they are made to disintegrate. I have an 1/8" thick steel plate at 400yds the 45's will ding it but 69gr SMK's blow clean through it. No sheet metal on cars is anywhere near 1/8".

Titanium is weird sorta.

When you buy it a metal stock, its light, thats the first thing you notice.

Then when machining it ( ie Drill a hole in it) You find its like drilling thru soft stainless steel/Aluminium. The chips are real nicely formed & its quiet.

But, if you let it heat up, you are fukked, it turns into some sort of super stainless steel, the only way you could machine form it is with a grindstone.

By 'letting it heat up' I mean, the cutter rotated twice without actualy machining anything off it. It 'Rubbed' for a split second. Thats all it takes.

I machined some slots in a peice of Titanium (50mm x 8mm) about 25mm long & 8mm dia once.
I had to set the stops so that I didn't have to machine a bit, then check the length of the slot, machine a bit more etc.
So I used a used milling 'slotdrill' (HSS cutter) & premachined a peice of mild steel with that slot first.
Once I had done that & made sure the cutter was in the centre of the material & the slot was right.

I then took out that cutter & put a 'Brand New' cutter in.
I got the coolent running directly onto where the cutter was going to be machining.
I put the machine in 'feed' & machined the slot.
Once the cutter had machined the slot, I pulled up the 'quill' so the cutter left the slot verticaly instead of stopping the tool rotation, theres no way I could have stopped the rotation quick enough so that it wouldn't rub against the titanium.

Any rubbing would have heated the metal & it would have got hard instantly.
Putting any machine cutter to that would have ruined the cutter within a second.

So, OK. You can buy the Titanium metal sheet, drill the holes & form it like you want it too.
Then heat it up in a oven, and it will be as hard as the toughest stainless steel.
Actually harder.

...

You're a machinist working with Ti and you don't even know at what temperatures it hardens? Or how to cool it? Or that there are over 9000 Ti alloys and ways to harden them? Or what their hardness and physical properties are?

...

You're a machinist working with Ti and you don't even know at what temperatures it hardens? Or how to cool it? Or that there are over 9000 Ti alloys and ways to harden them? Or what their hardness and physical properties are?

amateur machinist?

amateur machinist?

He should still understand that specific temperatures and instructions are required to heat treat metal.

This is pretty basic metallurgy.

Bullshit. Plain and simple. Even the 45gr JHP's I shoot would do it, and they are made to disintegrate. I have an 1/8" thick steel plate at 400yds the 45's will ding it but 69gr SMK's blow clean through it. No sheet metal on cars is anywhere near 1/8".

Maybe a Kia pickup and an 14.5 inch barrel with m855. I guess youre right on calling me a bullshitter, because on that particular incident 3 out of 26 bullets made it through. Not to mention, your testing is clearly superior and its not like Ive been on several deployments with this setup and have seen it pass/fail many times, or anything.

...

You're a machinist working with Ti and you don't even know at what temperatures it hardens? Or how to cool it? Or that there are over 9000 Ti alloys and ways to harden them? Or what their hardness and physical properties are?

Ah, Yeah. I'm a machinist, Fitter/Turner is what we call them.
I did a 4 year apprenticeship & did the same work for another 7 years before getting into welding.
Most of my work was milling machine work & some welding. I used the centre lathe for a bit to make parts for jigs & fix other stuff.
We had other guys that only worked on the lathes.
I also setup Capstan lathes (auto lathes)

I knew of & probably met Burt Monroe & my Father knew him as a great friend & they rodes bike together & Dad actually did some work for his bikes too.

So basicly I did all the milling machine & welding in our firm for 11 years.

However, I only saw Titanium a few times, it was parts for racing yachts.

The idea is to NOT heat it up, once it heats up a little bit.

The cutter starts to rub, it heats up, cutter rubs more, heats up more,
cutter rubs, it heats up,
smoke starts to come off the cutter, it heats up more,
cutter goes a nice shade of blue,
the work starts to go thru a colour change of little rainbows

& theres no damn way you are ever going to machine it again...

darkme sure likes to talk a lot about metallurgy..

yet he doesn't have any credentials, judging by what he has to say on it. just another kid that's read a few misinformational texts and internet articles who thinks he knows anything about metal.

so if i got some sheet it would be easiest to work with if i set it on a snow bank outside?

if i want to make it strong after its cut, could i heat treat it with an acetylene torch?

so if i got some sheet it would be easiest to work with if i set it on a snow bank outside?

if i want to make it strong after its cut, could i heat treat it with an acetylene torch?

1st. No keeping it in snow (or real cold) won't really help.
It will if you are drilling holes in it though, the thing where it gets hard is with drilling/milling/cutting it etc when the tooling rubs & heats it up.

Its that you shouldn't let the tool rub & that you have very sharp cutting tools & once you start cutting/drilling etc, you don't stop.
Like if you were drilling it I would set it all up in position, put the drill bit where its to go, put some pressure on it & then, start the motor & start drilling it.
I would also has cutting fluid running onto it. Or if doing it by hand, have someone else pouring cutting fluid onto it.

When I think about what you are wanting to do, with thinish sheet metal, I'd punch holes thru it with a mechanical punch rather than drill it.

I don't see why you couldn't hammer it into shape to form it, it won't get hot & then turn hard & also, when you get it, its actually a lot softer than you would think.
More like a hard aluminium.
You might be able to made a 'ghetto punch' setup with some tools ( punch & receiving part- peice of metal with a hole in it directly under where the punch is.) Try it out with Aluminium to work out the details.

Also a hacksaw will saw thru the Titanium easy enough.

Once you have finished working it, yep, heat it up with a gas torch & it'll go as hard as hell. Nice colours too.
You could just use a kitchen oven, that would do the job too.
It'll be as hard as any Stainless Steel you can get. Even harder.

I don't know how hard it is to get the titanium, you would probably buy it precut to the shape you want anyway.(unless its small, I imagine, say, 300mm X 400mm sheet)

Ah, Yeah. I'm a machinist, Fitter/Turner is what we call them.
I did a 4 year apprenticeship & did the same work for another 7 years before getting into welding.
Most of my work was milling machine work & some welding. I used the centre lathe for a bit to make parts for jigs & fix other stuff.
We had other guys that only worked on the lathes.
I also setup Capstan lathes (auto lathes)

Ah, I see. Working with Ti is something you've only done a few times and all you've been told is "don't heat it up". Understandable.

BTW, I'm looking at getting into fitting/turning as a career myself, what's it like? Is it a job you would recommend?

darkme sure likes to talk a lot about metallurgy..

yet he doesn't have any credentials, judging by what he has to say on it. just another kid that's read a few misinformational texts and internet articles who thinks he knows anything about metal.

STFU acolyte.

STFU acolyte.
he seems to be going around W&C and insulting like ALL of the regulars. i would just put him on your ignore list dude.

No credentials. How old are you again, Darkme?

No credentials. How old are you again, Darkme?

None of your business, and none of your business.

So then, what're your credentials and what exactly have I posted that's so incorrect? Or would actually having to say something of substance undermine your trolling?

LOL, even when someone makes a legit credential and age request it's trolling. Doing anything but agreeing with someone is trolling around these parts.. You guys call troll when you know you've fucked up and there's nothing you can do about it. God that term is abused.

LOL, even when someone makes a legit credential and age request it's trolling. Doing anything but agreeing with someone is trolling around these parts.. You guys call troll when you know you've fucked up and there's nothing you can do about it. God that term is abused.

Again, what're your credentials?

Again, what're your credentials?Theres no point in arguing with him he always thinks he is automatically right no matter what.

I asked first, you answer first. I'm going to take a stab at "ive read some internet articles" and "im 17 years old".

I asked first, you answer first. I'm going to take a stab at "ive read some internet articles" and "im 17 years old".

Who I am, what I do and what my credentials are is irrelevant.

All that matters is; How am I wrong?

he seems to be going around W&C and insulting like ALL of the regulars. i would just put him on your ignore list dude.

And waste all the enjoyment of a new idiot?!!11?1! Count me out.

Maybe a Kia pickup and an 14.5 inch barrel with m855. I guess youre right on calling me a bullshitter, because on that particular incident 3 out of 26 bullets made it through. Not to mention, your testing is clearly superior and its not like Ive been on several deployments with this setup and have seen it pass/fail many times, or anything.

Sorry for my maybe overzealous reply I was having a pisser of a day. Plus the insurgence of mall ninjas and shitheads has me on edge! I figured the ball ammo would be tough enough to pass through just about any automobile panel unless it hit a triple layer or window regulator or the likes.

I asked first, you answer first. I'm going to take a stab at "ive read some internet articles" and "im 17 years old".

i fail to see why age should come into this i am eighteen years of age and halfway through an apprenticeship to become a blacksmith i could not tell you anything about heat treating or hardening any metals the reason for this is that no one memorises the times and temps for hardening or tempering because they are all written down also when working with steel the oxidisation colours can be used to accurately judge the hardness of the metal