In light of Obama, and just cause we've always wanted to, my dad, brother and I are going to be building 3 Ar's. We have 3 DPMS lowers on order. We're each building one for ourselves, except they're not building immediately, they'll probably start in spring/summer. I on the other hand have a budget of $850 (not including the lower that's on order) and I'll be ordering this week if all goes well.

Here's the kit I've settled on:http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=KV2400&storeid=1&image=v24k.gif

As far as options go I had planned on going with the 5.56 chambering based on what i've read on this wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56x45mm_NATO#5.56mm_NATO_versus_.223_Remington
As i understand it a 5.56 chamber will take 5.56 and 223 without any damage, but a 223 chamber will get damaged overtime shooting 5.56

I'm going with the standard bolt and carrier, the 2 piece free float tube with a swivel stud, and a stainless 1/9 fluted barrel( we'll thread it for a custom comp ourselves).

I had a few questions though:
1)They have 2 upgrades listed for the bolt and carrier, is it worth the extra money?
2)Idk what the differences in the charging handles are, could someone explain?
3)I've seen articles and pics on the Ace skeleton stock, it seems nice but does anyone have any experience with it? how will it compare to the standard A2 stock?

I plan on getting a hogue pistol grip elsewhere as i've tried them and liked them, and i'm not concerned about getting any optics or sights at the moment. I've got 3 or four aluminum 30 round mags laying around and a pro-mag plastic 30 rounder that interchanges with my mini 14 and an AR, and a shit ton of ammo so those aren't any concern either.

So any tips? anything I'm missing? any recommendations? I promise to post pics.

why are you getting a varmint model? That is going to be super heavy. If this is a SHTF rifle then you don't want a eavy varmint model you want a carbine or even the regular size rifle.

About the chamber, the .223 rem chamber also carries the possibility of the rifle kabooming on you and not just getting damaged over time. Keep 5.56nato ammo out of a .223 chamber to be safe. Most a15s come with a 5.56 chamber. When you get the upper DOUBLE CHECK the barrel for the 5.56nato roll mark which will also have the twist rate. The one thing about using .223 in a 5.56 chamber is you may loose a little accuracy while using .223 and you will not get the full potential of the round IIRC.

1. If it is a chrome bolt carrier or the titanium one I believe they are much better than the basic bolt carrier. If this gun will be for shtf or rough use you will want an upgraded bolt carrier because i have heard of BC's just straight cracking with hard/rough use. that chrome bolt carrier is a good option to get but it is not completely necessary. They last longer and are more durable and they have a smoother function I believe.
2.The after market charging handles jus allow you to charge the rifle more easily. When there is a large scope mounted on the rifle it makes it hard to reach the chargin handle if it is over the handle. I have my scope over thecharging handle on my rifle and I just had to adaptto flattening my hand more for my two fingers to grab the charging handle.
3. i have never tried the skelaton stock but I think that would be more a cosmetic add on than anything. I have the standard rifle stock on my varmint rifle(long bullbarrel like the one you want) and i just put a after market grip and it works fine. i plan to get the magpul ar15 stock that is adjustable and has a cheek thing built in but it is pricey at like $250. But those ar probably one of the nicest stocks you could get for a scoped ar.
I am thinking about getting the dissipator model for so I have a 3rd upper fo rmy two lowers. Model 1 has great prices on uppers.

And you are going to need atleast sights if you plan on taking it to the range. promag makes cheaper flip up sights that cost like $40-60.

www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR162-1.html
www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR163-7.html
those are decnt for the money.

Seriously though if you are not using it for varmint hunting or target and it is more for shtf i wouldn't get a varmint configured upper.

You could get an extra upper that is a carbine i suppose though later if they are still availible. See, you will always be able to get the varmint upper or atleast longer than you will be able to get m4,dissipator,CAR15, XM177 style, standard uppers.

I'm actually building it for a varmint/ hunting gun, i forgot to mention that. Out of the other two we're building one will be a regular 20 inch barreled high rise flat top with an A2 stock, the other will be a 16-20 inch flat top with a light barrel, rails, and all the tactical evil looking doo-dads.

Also, is there anywhere than makes a rear sight that isn't an aperture sight or is there any way to put standard rifle sights on a flip up aperture sight?

I'm actually building it for a varmint/ hunting gun, i forgot to mention that. Out of the other two we're building one will be a regular 20 inch barreled high rise flat top with an A2 stock, the other will be a 16-20 inch flat top with a light barrel, rails, and all the tactical evil looking doo-dads.

Also, is there anywhere than makes a rear sight that isn't an aperture sight or is there any way to put standard rifle sights on a flip up aperture sight?

You know, you could just get an extra carbine upper for yourself right? you would have two rifle configurations in one.

I wouldn't suggest a light barrel gun. Always get the heavy barrel upper assembly(i dont mean bullbarrel) the heavy barrel is much better than those ar15 lightweight models.

i dont know what you mean by stnadard rifle sights? The dual aperature that comes on the fip up is a standard sight it just doesn't have elevation adjustment.

there is this style(but there are better american made ones):
www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR140-7.html
this style:
www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR119-7.html


do you mean standard AR15/m16 rifle sights or just standard rifle sights?what kind of sights do you have in mind? Ar15s use very a pretty darn accurate sighting system. The only kind I have seem are standard aperature sights. But i am sure they may have different style sights if you have the money. what is your poblem with those sights?

the more i look the more it looks like they only make that style of sights for the ar15.

Also, I would go with a 20 or 16 inch barrel. I really wish I would have got the shorter barrel. It definetly makes my gun a bench gun because it is so heavy with the bipod and everything. If this is a gun you plan to lug around out in the bush then you are going to want to make it as light as possible. Also, you could use the standard rifle for hunting and it would be lighter weight.
This could do what you want to do quite well and would be lighter to carry around while hunting:
http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=KSE200CL&storeid=1&image=s20prek.gif
If you are going for the best accuracy and are just hunting you should go with a .223 barrel because are you really that likely to use surplus ammo for hunting? You are probably going to be using quality hunting ammo in that rifle. But if you plan to be plinking at the range and are going for the best deals on ammo then go with a 5.56 i suppose.

The Ace skeleton stocks are great. Lighter than the originals and very rigid. I probably wouldn't put one on a varmint rifle, though. Would just make it more muzzle heavy, and you'd be better off with something like the SPR stock that ilovechronic mentioned.

Ilovechronic, what's the details on that AR of your's if you don't mind me asking? Did you buy it whole or build it?

I was trying to find sights more like this style:
http://www.wichitaarms.com/images/WichitaRearSightColt1911.jpg

I'm just not a big fan of aperture sights i guess. I don't think anyone sells anything like them though.

The Ace skeleton stocks are great. Lighter than the originals and very rigid. I probably wouldn't put one on a varmint rifle, though. Would just make it more muzzle heavy, and you'd be better off with something like the SPR stock that ilovechronic mentioned.

The standard stock will work fine for now anyway. just use that until you can save up the $250 for a magpul stock. Or if you have the cash you can et it substituted on model 1 sales for $210.

I don't know if I would piss with the chrome BC, but if you plan on scoping it get an extended charging handle latch at the very least, mine has a Badger tactical latch and its great. I just reach across the stock and hook it with my right pinky to run the bolt. Unless you are planning on shooting heavy bullets (69gr SMK or similar) I would get a 20" 1:12 barrel. The extra 4" really doesn't do much for lighter bullets.

EDIT: I just looked and they don't offer a 20" 1:12 barrel.

I personally dig the traditional A1 or A2 style AR's the most.
Or the CAR-15 for a short one.
I don't care much for the M4 look-alikes. Call me a fud if you will.
Oh and it has to be full black or OD with black furniture. Vietnam style.
A more ergonomical grip is probably the farthest I'd depart from traditionalism. And ambidextrous selector levers.
I will never trust folding iron sights, no matter what anyone says. I demand a carrying handle with irons on it, plus the irons on the gas block. That rail that you can add on the carry handle, for a scope or red dot sight, is acceptable, as long as the irons are useable as backup. Muzzle brakes are a no-no (seriously!). The traditional flash hiders work well enough.
I prefer the 20 inch barrel, but I can understand the practicality of a 16 inch one. Or 14 inch if you're a soldier. But shorter than that I really wouldn't dig.
Chrome-lined barrel is a must. Whatever you put inside the mechanism, get the best, no matter what it costs. Spend the most on the working parts, the least on the looks. Remember the fuddy AR on irons with the best internal components will beat the fuck out of the flashy tacticool one with 50 cent parts (ahhh, the joy of 50 cent parts; we really miss you HIFH).
Here endeth the rant.
Thank you for listening.

EDIT: You don't really need a 1 inch stainless precision barrel. The stock chrome lined barrel will be minute-of-badguy's-head at any distance that you will actually need to shoot. Remember that accurate shooting is more important than an extremely accurate rifle. Davy Crocket could shoot a fly off a donkey's ass and go varminting with a musket. You can too if you practice. And you won't have to haul a heavy ass barrel around.

What is the difference between a CAR-15 upper and an M4 upper?

What is the difference between a CAR-15 upper and an M4 upper?

Car15 has:
- 5 position more compact stock
-round shaped slimmer handguard
-no barrel cut for the m203
-most come with m4 feed ramps

m4 has:
-little bit larger 6 position stock
-more oval shaped handguard
-barrel cut for m203
-of course m4 feed ramps.
The two are very similar . The car15 is like the father of the m4 from a historical point of view.

You can't remove the carryhandle from the car15 if i remember right.

EDIT: You don't really need a 1 inch stainless precision barrel. The stock chrome lined barrel will be minute-of-badguy's-head at any distance that you will actually need to shoot. Remember that accurate shooting is more important than an extremely accurate rifle. Davy Crocket could shoot a fly off a donkey's ass and go varminting with a musket. You can too if you practice. And you won't have to haul a heavy ass barrel around.

He said it is going to be a varmint gun. Most varmints in the states are half "minute-of-badguys head". If you are going to shoot at something the size of a small squirrel at 400yds with a chrome lined barrel you better bring plenty of ammo ;-) If it was just a blasting gun I'd say hell yes chrome lined, but I don't think a chrome lined bore has any place in a varmint rig. As for me I'm young enough yet that I don't mind toting the extra weight of my 1"SS barrel.
A really accurate shooter can still only do so much with a sub-par rifle. I like a gun accurate enough that I am the limiting factor. Then I have no-one and nothing to blame but myself for misses.

You can't remove the carryhandle from the car15 if i remember right.

this is true for the orginal CAR15 from vietnam. But with the modern lookalikes you can get a1, a2,a3, or a4 recievers. It really is up to the person.

Mine is a flat top CAR15 build. The upper is from m and awhich i don't think they are selling kits anymore. the lower is a dpms.

Ilovechronic, what's the details on that AR of your's if you don't mind me asking? Did you buy it whole or build it?

I was trying to find sights more like this style:
http://www.wichitaarms.com/images/WichitaRearSightColt1911.jpg

I'm just not a big fan of aperture sights i guess. I don't think anyone sells anything like them though.

I have not seen any 3 dot or dove tail sights for an ar15. You will be scoping the rifle anyway so you don't really need them. but seriously that is like putting ak sights o an ar15. the ar15 sights are one of the advantages it has over the ak.

Man you can easily hunt with the carbine upper. It is going to be heavy to lug that varmint rifle around with a optic on it + whatever gear you bring. The 16in varminter wouldn't b so bad.

This is my CAR15:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/IMG_0089.jpg
m-aparts.com upper kit
dpms lower purchased from local ffl
it has a promag flip up
m4 style stock but on the 5 position car tube.
ergo grip.
flat top
16 in barrel
no ban configuration
i plan on getting a 4 rail handguard.
Burris "xtream tactical" red dot.

This is my varmint rifle.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/IMG_0099.jpg
made from Jand Tdistributing upper kit
ADS lower 9advancd defense systems, a local company)
24 inch bullarrel
flat top
weaver scope
after market grip
free floating HG
haris bipod
The rifle is pretty darn heavy because of the long barrel, I want to hunt coyote nd small varmint with it but I regret getting the long barrel. Maybe i wil get it fluted or something or just chopped down to 20in or 18in.

both rifles were bought as upper kits and then i assembled the stripped lower which i purchased from my local ffl.

He said it is going to be a varmint gun.

I missed this part. Sorry. You're right on that one.

I just put my order in, hopefully everything gets here fine and on time. If all goes well i'll have a nice setup in 1-2 weeks depending on shipping and finding time to build.

I just put my order in, hopefully everything gets here fine and on time. If all goes well i'll have a nice setup in 1-2 weeks depending on shipping and finding time to build.

The build should take about 10-30 mins. If you take it really slow then an hour.

Fuck! Turns out model one sales won't even be able to ship it for 14 weeks! this is bullshit

By the time your order is shipped it will already be too late, your mother will have run off with a black man and your father will be a gimp at one (or many) of the local gay bars within a thirty mile radius of your county. Just start digging my friend, prepare for the nukes and stock up on beef jerky and JD. It's going to be a long ride.

Fuck! Turns out model one sales won't even be able to ship it for 14 weeks! this is bullshit

goto Jand T distributing makes a decent upper. www.jtdistributing.net/store/more_k_bbk.html
it is 574$ and they have what ever size barrel you want. you can also get it fluted and ported for a little extra.

Also if you are not down with jand t you can go down the industry list at r15.com and see what you can find.
www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=2

By the time your order is shipped it will already be too late, your mother will have run off with a black man and your father will be a gimp at one (or many) of the local gay bars within a thirty mile radius of your county. Just start digging my friend, prepare for the nukes and stock up on beef jerky and JD. It's going to be a long ride.



The humor knows no bounds with you does it.

hey thanks ! :)

goto Jand T distributing makes a decent upper. www.jtdistributing.net/store/more_k_bbk.html
it is 574$ and they have what ever size barrel you want. you can also get it fluted and ported for a little extra.

Also if you are not down with jand t you can go down the industry list at r15.com and see what you can find.
www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=2

I already gave model 1 my money:(

I already gave model 1 my money:(

Well you could give j and t a call and see if they have what you want in stock and then if they do take your money back from model 1.