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patton
2009-01-14, 02:04
I had to write this for school
I figured I'd post it here, and get some feedback

In the past few weeks, Israel has initiated "Operation Cast Lead", a military action in response to the barrage of rockets coming from Hamas militants from Gaza into southern Israel. Israel has bombarded hundreds of targets in the Gaza Strip with explosives, and has invaded Gaza to destroy Hamas and stop the flow of rockets into Southern Israel. These actions by Israel have caused an extremely unfortunate high number of civilian casualties, and while this is horrible, it is a reality in the hell that is war. And Hamas could avoid these casualties to the people they say they stand for, if they stopped hiding themselves among civilians in the city, and came out and fought their jihad like real men. But they won't do this, they disguise themselves as civilians, fire their rockets into Israel and hide. When Israel goes after them, civilians die in the process. Again a horrible thing that everyone should deeply regret, but a reality in war.

One thing people need to know is that this war will not achieve peace. It simply will not, Israel will defeat Hamas in 2008 as they defeated Hezbollah in 2006, but they still will not have peace. Peace in such a disputed region will not be as simple as Israel winning this war.

I strongly believe in the "peace through superior firepower" mindset. It almost always works, as it did in the civil war, WWI, WWII and many other conflicts. But it simply will not work in Israel. This land has been fiercely fought over even since before the creation of the state of Israel in 1948. One could make an argument that it's been fought over since biblical times. And in the last 2000 years, peace through superior firepower hasn't worked. The only way to have peace in the middle east is through diplomacy. We need a 2 state solution that is brokered through a lot of negotiations. We need 2 sides that are willing to negotiate and compromise their demands in order to have peace. One side simply defeating the other in a war will not bring us peace.

So far I've told you that the war has caused an extremely unfortunate number of civilian casualties, and will not bring about peace. So what I'm about to say next might surprise you. I support Israel 100%. Now before you start thinking I'm some crazy war-loving lunatic, just hear me out. I want peace as much as anyone in that region. And that peace has to come through negotiations as I've said. However, Hamas is not willing to negotiate. Hamas was formed with one ideological goal, the destruction of Israel. How can Israel negotiate with someone who's not only unwilling to compromise, but calls for their destruction? They simply can't. Even though I think peace is ultimately achievable, and I think it needs to happen through talks, it can't happen through talks with Hamas. They are unwilling to compromise, so they must be outed.

Until both Israel and the Palestinians are willing to compromise, peace can not be achieved. And right now, the Palestinians are not willing to compromise. Peace is virtually impossible, and therefore Israel has a right, and a duty to defend its citizens from the rockets launched by Hamas into their borders. These rockets are acts of terrorism, and must be stopped.

I do truly hope that one day, peace will be achieved. Palestine will need to take a moderate approach, like the one Mahmoud Abbas and the Fatah party have. And Israel will need to be willing to compromise just as much as the Palestinians. I don't think this day is too far off. But until then, Israel must defend itself from its enemies, just as any other nation on earth would.

SWATFAG
2009-01-14, 02:22
Troll!

patton
2009-01-14, 03:00
How am I a troll...?

patton
2009-01-14, 04:04
Ehh I didn't really expect anyone to agree with me...

But seriously how do you expect Israel to negotiate with a group who doesn't even recognize them as a state?

ArgonPlasma2000
2009-01-14, 06:30
Ehh I didn't really expect anyone to agree with me...

But seriously how do you expect Israel to negotiate with a group who doesn't even recognize them as a state?

It can't. Just like Bush won't recognize that Iran has no intention of using their nuclear program for power production. (A whole 'nother can of worms, but the Shah was actively pursuing nuclear independance 50 years ago...) The only way it's going to work out is when they get voted out of office as we have seemingly done with Bush. The average Palestinian doesn't like Hamas, just like the average Iranian hates Ahmedinejhad and the Ayahtolla.

In the past few weeks, Israel has initiated "Operation Cast Lead", a military action in response to the barrage of rockets coming from Hamas militants from Gaza into southern Israel. Israel has bombarded hundreds of targets in the Gaza Strip with explosives, and has invaded Gaza to destroy Hamas and stop the flow of rockets into Southern Israel. These actions by Israel have caused an extremely unfortunate high number of civilian casualties, and while this is horrible, it is a reality in the hell that is war. And Hamas could avoid these casualties to the people they say they stand for, if they stopped hiding themselves among civilians in the city, and came out and fought their jihad like real men. But they won't do this, they disguise themselves as civilians, fire their rockets into Israel and hide. When Israel goes after them, civilians die in the process. Again a horrible thing that everyone should deeply regret, but a reality in war.

Civilian casualties happen all the time. The problem becomes when you kill so many civilians it becomes obvious you don't give a shit about them. The current death toll is at 952, with 400 of them being women and children, so you be the judge of approximately how many actual terrorists the IDF has killed.

Lets get this out of the way, Israel is the reason Hamas fought back: http://www.thedailybanter.com/tdb/2009/01/israel-admits-hamas-did-not-break-cease-fire.html

Israel broke the cease-fire. Hamas then said 'Fuck it" and started launching, what almost literally amounts to, model rockets in Israel's general direction. I haven't seen a single picture of the damage one of those rockets has done (the ones that actually hit something besides dirt) that did nothing more than put a 1 foot wide hole in a wall. Hamas ran out of Katyushas long ago and those Qasam rockets just barely fall under the definition of being a rocket.

Now that we've got that out of the way, lets see if you have been watching the news lately. Seen any of these pictures?

http://www.islandgroup.com/images/white_phosphorous_munition_firing.jpghttp://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200511/r64600_178355.jpghttp://www.citizensofcopenhagen.org/images/hvidfosfor1.jpghttp://blog.cleveland.com/world_impact/2009/01/large_Israeli-Shell-White-Smoke-Gaza-Jan3-09.jpg

Before we clarify just what this is, lets show two more picutres of this stuff:
http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/7-8/notes/496.jpghttp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/wp-DF-ST-90-09299.jpg

There is no difference in what makes the first set and the second set. Both are made with standard white phosphorous shells. Legitimately, it can be used as an irritant (like tear gas) or for smoke screening, as the bottom set shows. The fogging effect can only be done when the shells are fuzed so that they explode when they hit the ground or are very close. The top set shows white phosphorous shells being used for incendiary purposes.

Why do I go through all this? Take very good notice of the top set. Look at just how much area is being peppered by white hot chunks of metal. That's a good couple city blocks getting littered with that shit. If anyone just happens to be walking around, they get hit. Good thing everyone is inside, right? Wrong.
http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_in_action/Depleted_Uranium_files/wt-phosphorus.jpg

In an urban environment, you will never know there is an artillery shell coming straight at you until it's too late to run.

What are the effects of burning white phosphorous exposure? Second and third degree burns are the most obvious. The fires can only be extinguished with sand or mud. In third world countries, this is tantamount to medicating a gaping wound with dog shit. Phosphorous that gets into your skin will dissolve into oily tissues such as fat and will be metabolized into the body. When superfluous amounts of phosphorous is absorbed by the body, calcium levels decrease; hyperphosphatemia and hypocalcemia, respectively. This leads to kidney and liver failure in long enough exposure times, and people who have been exposed at all often develop chronic kidney and liver disease.

The only reason IDF is using phosphorous incendiary shells is because napalming the Palestinians looks too gruesome. Even your average American has a modicum of brain cells to know that fire is hot. If the IDF was seriously using phosphorous as smoke screening if wouldn't be air bursting and it for damn sure would be using red phosphorous shells, which burn very quickly and don't fog the ambient with phosphoric acid.

One thing people need to know is that this war will not achieve peace. It simply will not, Israel will defeat Hamas in 2008 as they defeated Hezbollah in 2006, but they still will not have peace. Peace in such a disputed region will not be as simple as Israel winning this war.

No, it will not acheive peace. Hamas want's the extermination of Jews, and Israel wants the extermination of the Palestinians. Govenrments actively engaging in genocide are beyond reasoning.

I strongly believe in the "peace through superior firepower" mindset. It almost always works, as it did in the civil war, WWI, WWII and many other conflicts. But it simply will not work in Israel. This land has been fiercely fought over even since before the creation of the state of Israel in 1948. One could make an argument that it's been fought over since biblical times. And in the last 2000 years, peace through superior firepower hasn't worked. The only way to have peace in the middle east is through diplomacy. We need a 2 state solution that is brokered through a lot of negotiations. We need 2 sides that are willing to negotiate and compromise their demands in order to have peace. One side simply defeating the other in a war will not bring us peace.

Yea, that seems to be working out SOOOO well in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now in Gaza. The only way for peace through force to work is when you make the other side realize they need to be peaceful. However, the Palestinians and Jews fight for something more than their own lives: a piece of God-forsaken desert roughly the size of New Hampshire. Yea. The Arabs and Jews have been fighting over what amounts to the vacant dirt-plodden lot behind your house.

Diplomacy will not work because Hamas and the Israeli government will not allow it. The only way to get true peace is to overthrow both governments and get the Palestinians and Jews to work together. The West Bank is already a Palestinian territory and they are just fine. Hamas and Israel feed hate off of each other.

So far I've told you that the war has caused an extremely unfortunate number of civilian casualties, and will not bring about peace. So what I'm about to say next might surprise you. I support Israel 100%. Now before you start thinking I'm some crazy war-loving lunatic, just hear me out. I want peace as much as anyone in that region. And that peace has to come through negotiations as I've said. However, Hamas is not willing to negotiate. Hamas was formed with one ideological goal, the destruction of Israel. How can Israel negotiate with someone who's not only unwilling to compromise, but calls for their destruction? They simply can't. Even though I think peace is ultimately achievable, and I think it needs to happen through talks, it can't happen through talks with Hamas. They are unwilling to compromise, so they must be outed.

Israel's government seems to be hell-bent on the destruction of the Arab world, so I don't see why Hamas not bullshitting around and making their hatred known is such a bad thing. At least you know that people who hate or support Hamas make some sort of intelligent decision as to why at some basic level. American's, on average, love Israel no matter what because they intentionally blind themselves to the war crimes and aggression that Israel inflicts on the Palestinians.

I support nothing except fairness and prosperity for all the civilians in the area, Palestinian and Israeli. This is why I get pissy when I see that the Palestinians get firebombed, put in front of IDF soldiers as human shields, and that Gaza is pretty much left with only the Egyptian tunnels to restock their food and water and to get people out of that hell hole.

Until both Israel and the Palestinians are willing to compromise, peace can not be achieved. And right now, the Palestinians are not willing to compromise. Peace is virtually impossible, and therefore Israel has a right, and a duty to defend its citizens from the rockets launched by Hamas into their borders. These rockets are acts of terrorism, and must be stopped.

I haven't heard anything at all about Israel letting up. All I've seen on the news is that the fighting is getting more intense, even as Hamas attacks have gone on the defensive. Israel savors this moment to inflict as much damage as they can before the rest of the world figures out they are being a bunch of genocidal shitheads. Israel want's nothing to do with peace. That's why the Prime Minister called Bush instead of Hamas: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090112/pl_afp/mideastconflictgazaolmertusrice_newsmlmmd

Allah be with you, Richard Al`Gaza.

SLP
2009-01-14, 12:43
What the Arabs need is a definite backing by the Chinese. The Chinese want Arab oil, so as a trade why don't they receive military support from the Chinese? Since nearly all Arab nations support Hamas, couldn't Chinese military support be extended to Hamas? That would force Israel to back down.