It is now time to begin respecting your fellow Chinese as equals in the war department. The Chinese are on the war path and they mean business. The Chinese military is oiling up for a showdown that will put new meaning to world war.

I imagine some people were not able to read through my first paragraph and have left; good for all those who have stuck around.

http://henryckliu.com/page177.html

The structural problem of the Chinese economy can be described in one sentence: China produces from plants financed by foreign investment that operate with low domestic wages for foreign markets that pay with dollars that cannot be used in the domestic economy.

The solution to this structural problem can also be summed up in one sentence: China must finance plants with sovereign credit to produce for the domestic market where consumer purchasing power will come from high wages, with sovereign credit repaid from increased tax revenue from a vibrant domestic economy.

In 25 years the Chinese will not care for the United States dollar as they do now, and eastern Africa will be flooded with a swath of Chinese yuan (that's their currency). The Chinese will eventually plan to dump US dollars from their holdings in favour of their domestic Chinese yuan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1036105/How-Chinas-taking-Africa-West-VERY-worried.html

Reminiscent of the West's imperial push in the 18th and 19th centuries - but on a much more dramatic, determined scale - China's rulers believe Africa can become a 'satellite' state, solving its own problems of over-population and shortage of natural resources at a stroke.
With little fanfare, a staggering 750,000 Chinese have settled in Africa over the past decade. More are on the way.

The first step is to sell weapons to those loyal to the Chinese, create a secret police to enforce the loyalist's will and allow the Chinese into the country to build up a giant infrastructure to mine, drill, sow and reap every drop of mother nature from the land.

However threatening this situation may seem, I honestly do not think the US will be involved in the next world war to the extent it was during the second or even the first. The next world war and cold war will be fought between China and the EU.

Why have to stop this. Lets all boycott Chinese made products.

The west has done far worse than what china is doing at the moment

As for the USA, it's had it's day. You know the $700 billion bailout; that's borrowed from the Chinese. I forsee major problems for the USA when the dollar collapses. The USA will be lucky if it can feed it's popullation, let alone wage war with China.

The strength of the Chinese nation is in its ability to sell goods to the west . Why, then, would the Chinese disrupt this flow of "strength" by waging war?

The strength of the Chinese nation is in its ability to sell goods to the west . Why, then, would the Chinese disrupt this flow of "strength" by waging war?

hmm maybe it could turn out like japan and ww2?

I mean they start showing signs of waging war and such to NATO allys so the USA and allies do the same shit they did to japan in ww2 forcing the chinese to attack america.

Plus OP your forgetting a war with EU = a war with america because NATO

they arent going to dump the Dollar. if they let even a small amount of dollars go, the rest will plummet in value.

The alliances:

UK and US (NATO)
France, Germany and Italy (EU)
China (Zhing-Zhong)
Russia (Soviet)

The US will not risk going to war to preserve the EU. Whatever France, Germany and Italy have cooked up I do not believe it is any match for the Chinese.

China could probably not rival American military might for another 50 years, if we were to completely give up on building and developing weapons and they were to move full steam ahead with weapons development.

The Nimitz class carriers are the most fearsome and updated war machines ever made. China can't even build a simple steel hull big enough to acccomodate the four acre flight deck of the recently commissions USS George HW Bush. Their fighters are shit compared to the F-22, or even the F-35, or even a simple F-15. They also have only a couple hundred nuclear weapons, not many strategic nuclear weapons, compared to America's thousands even after Bush's aggressive cuts in our nuclear arsenal over the past eight years... I could go on and on... while the trends are scary when you look at their economic growth versus American stagnation, what we already simply have in the water, air, or on the ground, or in development, will tide us over for decades to come if a shooting war ever started.

Their ability to wage digital warfare and other forms of asymetrical war however, do worry me. But on a simple calculation of military might, China is simply no match for the United States and its allies.
And yes, NATO is a real defense treaty and it does constitute an obligation for the United States to use force to defend its allies that are part of it. We share nuclear weapons with Germany, Turkey, and other members and are treaty bound to use our own as well if those countries were attacked.

China could probably not rival American military might for another 50 years, if we were to completely give up on building and developing weapons and they were to move full steam ahead with weapons development.

The Nimitz class carriers are the most fearsome and updated war machines ever made. China can't even build a simple steel hull big enough to acccomodate the four acre flight deck of the recently commissions USS George HW Bush. Their fighters are shit compared to the F-22, or even the F-35, or even a simple F-15. They also have only a couple hundred nuclear weapons, not many strategic nuclear weapons, compared to America's thousands even after Bush's aggressive cuts in our nuclear arsenal over the past eight years... I could go on and on... while the trends are scary when you look at their economic growth versus American stagnation, what we already simply have in the water, air, or on the ground, or in development, will tide us over for decades to come if a shooting war ever started.

Their ability to wage digital warfare and other forms of asymetrical war however, do worry me. But on a simple calculation of military might, China is simply no match for the United States and its allies.
And yes, NATO is a real defense treaty and it does constitute an obligation for the United States to use force to defend its allies that are part of it. We share nuclear weapons with Germany, Turkey, and other members and are treaty bound to use our own as well if those countries were attacked.

This. Although they did get their hands on an F-15 Iran downed in the 80s a couple years back. They copied alot of the tech and made a new fighter.... that didn't even have radar.

No, in terms of manpower China far outmatches anyone else on the planet. However, they can't use it on us because it is pretty much impossible for them to mount an invasion of US mainland. By same token, I highly doubt we could also mount an invasion force unless we were to mount it from a neighboring country. China doesn't have that luxury with Canada and Mexico.

In conventional warfare, China doesn't scare me. Even if they did fuck us up by hacking Wall Street, it puts them in the exact same boat. Both of our countries would still be operating full steam ahead because of executive order, and we would no doubt win the conflict. The only thing that I see would present a problem is if Russia got involved, but they are almost bankrupt right now, let alone after China and USA collapses.

This. Although they did get their hands on an F-15 Iran downed in the 80s a couple years back. They copied alot of the tech and made a new fighter.... that didn't even have radar.

No, in terms of manpower China far outmatches anyone else on the planet. However, they can't use it on us because it is pretty much impossible for them to mount an invasion of US mainland. By same token, I highly doubt we could also mount an invasion force unless we were to mount it from a neighboring country. China doesn't have that luxury with Canada and Mexico.

In conventional warfare, China doesn't scare me. Even if they did fuck us up by hacking Wall Street, it puts them in the exact same boat. Both of our countries would still be operating full steam ahead because of executive order, and we would no doubt win the conflict. The only thing that I see would present a problem is if Russia got involved, but they are almost bankrupt right now, let alone after China and USA collapses.

Yes, I do believe the F-15 story is very typical of how China acquires military technology. They send out buyers and analysts from their military and industry to arms dealers around the world in Israel, South Africa, and Russia and other nations with loose standards on arms exports, act interested in acquiring weapons and technology, obtain as much information as they can about the products, ie technical specifications, blueprints, and whatnot, then just go home and build indigenous shitty copies of the same weapons.

Also, I wasn't thinking so much about them hacking Wall Street, I don't believe they could really do any worse than our own bankers and government have done to Wall Street even with malicious intent, but was thinking about the Pentagon being hacked. That is a very scary possibility that I won't purport to understand the intricacies of knowing little about network security or our nation's efforts to protect the integrity of the defense network.

I also think in any war with China, we would simply nuke the shit out of them. The risk of them invading and overrunning Japan or South Korea, two of our closest allies, is simply too great to imagine. MacArthur wanted to do it in 1951 but Truman wouldn't let him and fired him instead. In my opinion, and however terrible this sounds, in many ways the world would be a much safer place if back then we had sacked up and simply 'strangled the baby in the cradle,' if you will, and avoided the rise of a nuclear China. Just a personal opinion though.......

The Chinese strategy is simple: secure future energy supplies. By 2030 the Chinese will be consuming 13 million barells of oil per day (http://www.cfr.org/publication/9557), and almost 70% of that will have to be imported into China.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_19-1-2005_pg4_5

WASHINGTON: China is developing military bases and diplomatic ties from the Middle East to the South China Sea in order to protect its oil shipments and strategic interests, according to an internal report prepared for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, The Washington Times said on Tuesday.

“China is building strategic relationships along the sea lanes from the Middle East to the South China Sea in ways that suggest defensive and offensive positioning to protect China’s energy interests, but also to serve broad security objectives,” said the report, sponsored by the director of Net Assessment, who heads Rumsfeld’s office on future-oriented strategies.

The Chinese will paint everything from Sudan to Hong Kong red. As it was when the Soviet Union fell and the US began its invasion of Iraq so to now after 9/11 is US planing an invasion of Iraq on behalf of the Chinese against the EU.

I think you guys focus too much on military terms, the chances of an all out war between the US and China are non-existant, however there could be a variety of smaller proxy conflicts around the globe.

Also I believe the Chinese are more focused of securing the world's resources, and so far they are definately in the lead, while the US has been wasting time in Iraq, China has literally bought off most of Africa's natural resources.

It's not just about hydrocarbons, not only has China been able to diversify it's oil supply, buying from alternative sources so not to come into direct conflict with the US, but it has also secured immense mineral supplies.

The US and European nations are lagging behind in Africa, which sits upon most of the planet's minerals.

The alliances:

UK and US (NATO)
France, Germany and Italy (EU)
China (Zhing-Zhong)
Russia (Soviet)

The US will not risk going to war to preserve the EU. Whatever France, Germany and Italy have cooked up I do not believe it is any match for the Chinese.

france germany and italy are NATO members.

the UK is also a member of the EU.

how does THAT line up with your little scheme of life?

oh yeah, and chinese technology is not "shitty" they have more university graduates than any other country. and they have practically absorbed Taiwan, and co-operate closely with korea which is ahead of every other country in everything by at least 10 years. if a plant in shenzhen can produce semiconductor wafer at 1/10 the price and half the time that a plant in germany can produce it what does that imply for the posibillities of war production?

the fact is, that soon, china will be able to churn out UAV's at 10 times the rate of america.

have you seen china's cities recently? beijing? shanghai? chongqing? guangzhou? dongguan? each of these cities have the population of New York STATE! and are looking more and more like Neo-
Tokyo every day! add to that Taiwan and Hong Kong. then you start to get the picture, no other single state in history has ever wielded so much raw power, so much drive and ambition.

another thing, this "global economic meltdown" china's growth has slowed to 6%. 6%!!!!!!!! the west hasn't seen 6% since the industrial revolution!

france germany and italy are NATO members.

the UK is also a member of the EU.

how does THAT line up with your little scheme of life?


The UK does not use the euro, they have continued with the pound. Historically the US has been ally with the UK. The EU refers to those members who have decided to use the euro as their currency of choice - the euro currency alliance. The Brits, Norwegies and Swedes and all others who "claim" some EU status are indepenents who do not use the euro and are mostly allied with the US.

As of late the EU has gone against the will of the Anglo-American alliance. Iraq is a great example. The EU opposed the war while the Anglo-American alliance sold it. Afghanistan is a proxy war for China's energy security on part of the Anglo-American alliance.

yeah, we don't have the euro here. but we ARE full members of the EU. the only countries in europe that arent in the EU are Norway and switzerland. these are actual facts that you can find out.

also, ALL european countries are part of NATO apart from switzerland.

you sir. are officially a retard.

OP, where are you getting your half baked ideas about these "alliances" and "blocs"? They make absolutely no sense and as stormshadow just said, are factually wrong. I was perfectly fine with debating China's military and economic might and its implications for international security, but your ideas seem like they belong more on Alex Jones' infowars.com or some shit...

Oh, and just for the lawls: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/malcolmmoore/blog/2009/01/15/china_shanzhais_the_humvee_

One way for Europe to bypass Russian influence is through Georgia and Azerbaijan. In the mid-1990's the US and UK on the basis of ethnic disputes in Kosovo excersized the right to invade the country, build military bases and insure that any pipeline constructed in the immediate area originating from Azerbaijan and finding its way to European markets would not come under the control of Russia. Russia is the number one supplier of hydrocarbons to Europe.

Iran, a major supplier to European markets is now shifting its emphasis toward China and the Chinese have already begun construction on a new navy base in Gwadar, Pakistan. The US will never invade Pakistan for this reason. China also has its eyes set on the Maldives, Bangladesh, the Isthmus of Kra (Thailand) and the Mundab Strait which are all vital to its energy future.

EU cannot contend with China because the US will not take steps miltarily to deter China from securing its energy. Zimbabwe and Mozambique will be the new breadbaskets for the Chinese and Sudan and the Congo will be the source of raw materials for China.

^^ Hahahaha, this man has got to be joking. Zimbabwe the future breadbasket of 1.4 billion people? What the fuck are they going to feed them, bushmeat?

Secondly, in your second paragraph, you start off talking about Iran, then swing wildly into some rant about Pakistan. Please keep the arguments coherent next time.

You are right about the Sudan and the Congo, though. The Chinese have been investing billions into these countries for the past decade to secure future energy sources. The West better find new allies or switch to renewables fast.

The Chinese intend for the Gwadar Port in Pakistan to play two roles. First, it will act as a friendly port in the Gulf of Oman where 13+ million barells of oil enter by way of the Strait of Hormuz, and oil from Iran is perhaps a chief concern as it will have enter into the Gulf of Oman on its way to China. Secondly, Gwadar will be the end point for future pipelines through Afghanistan.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?sid=aqs62vOSYJrU&pid=20601080

Jan. 14 (Bloomberg) -- China called for the United Nations to take a peacekeeping role in Somalia as Ethiopian forces withdraw from the Horn of Africa nation, which is facing a humanitarian crisis.

“The international community has to pay more attention to the peace process in Somalia,” Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi said during a two-day visit to Uganda, the official Xinhua News Agency reported. “There should be more inputs from the UN.”

To the Chinese, the chokepoints are the Straits of Mundab (Read Sea and Gulf of Aden), Straits of Hormuz ( Gulf of Persia and Gulf of Oman), Straits of Malaca (Singapore) and Straits of Lombok (where all vessels larger than Malacamax must enter). Somalia is only a small part of this road to security.