Log in

View Full Version : New Insight into Holocaust (proof)


KATIEW
January 30th, 2008, 02:26 PM
Holocaust survivor learns father’s fate

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22689794

Long-buried horrors of Holocaust in Ukraine uncovered as French priest tracks down Ukranian witnesses

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/06/world/europe/06priest.html?

A Priest Methodically Reveals Ukrainian Jews’ Fate
Efrem Lukatsky/Associated Press
Over four years, the Rev. Patrick Desbois and his group have identified more than 600 common graves of Jews in Ukraine.

By ELAINE SCIOLINO
Published: October 6, 2007
PARIS, Oct. 5 — His subjects were mostly children and teenagers at the time, terrified witnesses to mass slaughter. Some were forced to work at the bottom rung of the Nazi killing machine — as diggers of mass graves, cooks who fed Nazi soldiers and seamstresses who mended clothes stripped from the Jews before execution.



Antoine Antoniol for The New York Times
"I cannot react to the horrors that pour out. If I react, the stories will stop."
The Rev. Patrick Desbois
They live today in rural poverty, many without running water or heat, nearing the end of their lives. So Patrick Desbois has been quietly seeking them out, roaming the back roads and forgotten fields of Ukraine, hearing their stories and searching for the unmarked common graves. He knows that they are an unparalleled source to document the murder of the 1.5 million Jews of Ukraine, shot dead and buried throughout the country.

He is neither a historian nor an archaeologist, but a French Roman Catholic priest. And his most powerful tools are his matter-of-fact style — and his clerical collar.

The Nazis killed nearly 1.5 million Jews in Ukraine after their invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941. But with few exceptions, most notably the 1941 slaughter of nearly 34,000 Jews in the Babi Yar ravine in Kiev, much of that history has gone untold.

Knocking on doors, unannounced, Father Desbois, 52, seeks to unlock the memories of Ukrainian villagers the way he might take confessions one by one in church.

“At first, sometimes, people don’t believe I’m a priest,” said Father Desbois in an interview this week. “I have to use simple words and listen to these horrors — without any judgment. I cannot react to the horrors that pour out. If I react, the stories will stop.”

Over four years, Father Desbois has videotaped more than 700 interviews with witnesses and bystanders and has identified more than 600 common graves of Jews, most of them previously unknown. He also has gathered material evidence of the execution of Jews from 1941 to 1944, the “Holocaust of bullets” as it is called.

Often his subjects ask Father Desbois to stay for a meal and to pray, as if to somehow bless their acts of remembrance. He does not judge those who were assigned to carry out tasks for the Nazis, and Holocaust scholars say that is one reason he is so effective.

“If a Jewish taker-of-testimony comes, what would people think — that this is someone coming to accuse,” said Paul Shapiro, director of the Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. “When a priest comes, people open up. He brings to the subject a kind of legitimacy, a sense that it’s O.K. to talk about the past. There’s absolution through confession.”

Unlike in Poland and Germany, where the Holocaust remains visible through the searing symbols of the extermination camps, the horror in Ukraine was hidden away, first by the Nazis, then by the Soviets.

“There was nothing to see in Ukraine because people were shot to death with guns,” said Thomas Eymond-Laritaz, president of the Victor Pinchuk Foundation, Ukraine’s largest philanthropic organization. “That’s why Father Desbois is so important.”

The foundation helped underwrite a conference on the subject at the Sorbonne this week — the first to bring together Western and Ukrainian scholars — and has begun contributing funds to Father Desbois’s project.

Some of the results of Father Desbois’s research — including video interviews, wartime documents, photographs of newly uncovered mass graves, rusty bullets and shell casings and personal possessions of the victims — are on display for the first time at an exhibit at the Memorial of the Shoah in the Marais district of Paris.

The exhibit shows, for example, images of the 15 mass graves of several thousand Jews in a commune called Busk that Father Desbois and his team discovered and began excavating after interviewing several witnesses. Among hundreds of other items on display is a black-and-white photo from 1942 that shows a German police officer shooting naked Jewish women lying in a ravine in the Rivne region.

Traveling with a team that includes two interpreters, a photographer, a cameraman, a ballistics specialist, a mapping expert and a notetaker, Father Desbois records all the stories on video, sometimes holding the microphone himself, and asking questions in simple language and a flat tone.

In Buchach in 2005, Regina Skora told Father Desbois that as a young girl she witnessed executions.

“Did the people know they were going to be killed?” Father Desbois asked her.

“Yes.”

“How did they react?”

“They just walked, that’s all. If someone couldn’t walk, they told him to lie on the ground and shot him in the back of the neck.”

Vera Filonok said she was 16 when she watched from the porch of her mud hut in Konstantinovka in 1941 as thousands of Jews were shot, thrown into a pit and set on fire. Those who were still alive writhed “like flies and worms,” she said.

In a World War II photograph, a member of a Nazi SS paramilitary group prepared to execute a Ukrainian Jew, one of 1.5 million put to death during the war.

Witness to Genocide (memorialdelashoah.org) There are stories of how the Nazis drummed on empty buckets to avoid having to listen to the screams of their victims, how Jewish women were made sex slaves of the Nazis and then executed. One witness said that as a 6-year-old he hid and watched as his best friend was shot to death.

Other witnesses described how the Nazis were allowed only one bullet to the back per victim and that the Jews sometimes were buried alive. “One witness told of how the pit moved for three days, how it breathed,” Father Desbois recalled.

Father Desbois became haunted by the history of the Nazis in Ukraine as a child growing up on the family farm in the Bresse region of eastern France. His paternal grandfather, who was deported to a prison camp for French soldiers in Rava-Ruska, on the Ukrainian side of the Polish border, told the family nothing about the experience. But he confessed to his relentlessly curious grandson, “For us it was bad, for ‘others’ it was worse.”

There were other family links to the German occupation of France. One maternal cousin who carried letters for French resisters perished in a Nazi concentration camp. Father Desbois’s mother told him only recently that the family hid dozens of resisters on the farm.

After teaching mathematics as a French government employee in West Africa and working in Calcutta for three months with Mother Teresa, he joined the priesthood. His secular family was horrified.

He started as a parish priest, studying Judaism and learning Hebrew during a stint in Israel. He asked to work with Gypsies, ex-prisoners or Jews, and was appointed as a bridge to France’s Jewish community.

It was on a tour with a group in 2002 that, visiting Rava-Ruska, he asked the mayor where the Jews were buried. The mayor said he did not know.

“I knew that 10,000 Jews had been killed there, so it was impossible that he didn’t know,” Father Desbois recalled.

The following year, a new mayor took the priest to a forest where about 100 villagers had gathered in a semicircle, waiting to tell their stories and to help uncover the graves buried beneath their feet.

He met other mayors and parish priests who helped find more witnesses. In 2004, Father Desbois created Yahad-In Unum, an organization devoted to Christian-Jewish understanding run from a tiny office in a working-class neighborhood in northeastern Paris, backed and largely financed by a Holocaust foundation in France and the Catholic Church.

To verify witnesses’ testimony, Father Desbois relies heavily on a huge archive of Soviet-era documents housed in the Holocaust museum in Washington, as well as German trial archives. He registers an execution or a grave site only after obtaining three independent accounts from witnesses.

Only one-third of Ukrainian territory has been covered so far, and it will take several more years to finish the research. A notice at the exit of the Paris exhibit asks that any visitor with information about victims of Nazi atrocities in Ukraine leave a note or send an e-mail message.

“People talk as if these things happened yesterday, as if 60 years didn’t exist,” Father Desbois said. “Some ask, ‘Why are you coming so late? We have been waiting for you.’” http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/antisemitism/voices/transcript/?content=20071108

http://www.memorialdelashoah.org/upload/minisites/ukraine/en/en_documents.htm


proof of holocaust

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/media_fi.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10007163&MediaId=5690

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/skin.html

Frau Ilse Koch, General Lucius Clay,
and Human-Skin Atrocities
By Jamie McCarthy

Ilse Koch (her first name has two syllables; her last name sounds like the Scottish "loch") is the most famous of all Germans accused of having committed atrocities during the war. She was the wife of the commandant of the Buchenwald camp. She was twice convicted in post-war trials, once by an international court and once by her own country. The chief charges against her were cruelty to inmates, including murder, but what she is best-known for is the making of human-skin ornaments, including the lampshades of which we've all heard.
It's exceedingly well-documented that such ornaments did exist; there's no question but that SOMEONE made them out of human skin. When one can see a book whose cover is tanned skin with a decorative tattoo on it, there's little question that the skin was that of a human being. If one has any doubt as to the origin of the substance, one should examine the forensic report conducted on some of the skin. It concludes, based on microscopic examination and the placement of the nipples and navel, that the skin was certainly human.

Various Holocaust-deniers, however, have attempted to cast doubt upon the existence of this skin, and upon the guilt of Ilse Koch in particular. Arthur Butz writes: [1]

The tattooed skin was undoubtedly due to the medical experiment role of Buchenwald. As remarked by [Christopher] Burney [a former inmate], when a Buchenwald inmate died the camp doctors looked his body over and if they found something interesting they saved it. It is fairly certain that the collection of medical specimens thus gathered was the source of the tattooed skin and the human head that turned up at the IMT as "exhibits" relating to people "murdered" at Buchenwald. [...]
...in 1948 the American military governor, General Lucius Clay, reviewed her case and determined that, despite testimony produced at her trial, Frau Koch could not be related to the lampshades and other articles which were "discovered" (i.e. planted) in the Buchenwald commandant's residence when the camp was captured in 1945. For one thing, she had not lived there since her husband's, and her own, arrest in 1943. Also her "family journal," said to be bound in human skin, and which was one of the major accusations against her, was never located, and obviously never existed.

Already we have two explanations of the human-skin ornaments. It is interesting to note that they are mutually exclusive. On the one hand, according to Butz, the ornaments unquestionably did exist, since tattooed skin was produced at the IMT, though it is "fairly certain" that the "medical specimens" were simply cut from the corpses of inmates who died naturally. On the other hand, the ornaments were "planted" by the Allies.

Butz can't have it both ways. He can claim that Ilse Koch is innocent because the ornaments came from inmates who died of natural causes and not murder; or, he can claim that the ornaments were forgeries, planted by the Allies to incriminate the Nazis. To claim both is ludicrous. Yet this is exactly what he does.

Butz's book was one of the earlier attempts at Holocaust denial, and later efforts would refine it to a great degree. Such refinement is clearly demonstrated by following deniers' claims about Ilse Koch.

In fact, in the same year that Butz's book was published, 1976, General Lucius Clay gave an interview at the little-known George C. Marshall Research Foundation, in which he indicated that he believed that the human-skin ornaments were not in fact made of HUMAN skin, but rather of goat skin. Mark Weber, now the Editor of the Journal of Historical Review, became aware of this interview some years later, after Clay had died (in 1978). He obtained a transcript, with the aid of Robert Wolfe of the National Archives, now retired, who incidentally is strongly opposed to Holocaust-denial. In 1987, Weber published his findings in an article in the Journal of Historical Review[2]

Armed with this "new" evidence, deniers began to play down Butz's claim that Koch should be considered innocent because the human-skin ornaments were merely "medical specimens." After all, this is the weaker argument; if one grants the courts' determinations that the human-skin ornaments existed, and further grants the courts' rulings that Koch was guilty of murder on separate counts, then it is an academic point whether the skin came from inmates who died naturally or violently.

It better rehabilitates the image of Nazism to say that the Allies framed Ilse Koch -- so this is the tack which deniers began to take. Theodore J. O'Keefe later published a pamphlet entitled "The 'Liberation of the Camps': Facts vs. Lies," which used the Clay quotation, and repeated Weber's claim that the human-skin ornaments never existed or were planted by the Allies. Bradley R. Smith's original campus advertisements, purchased in student newspapers in 1991, carried the Clay quotation and implied Weber's claim.[3] Later, deniers began to quote from Jean Edward Smith's Lucius D. Clay: An American Life[4] , in which Clay repeated the goat skin claim (but also contradicted himself, as we shall see).

In any case, the claim that "the collection of medical specimens thus gathered was the source of the tattooed skin" was quietly forgotten.

Furthermore, the unspoken implication in these articles is that one should not merely disbelieve that Ilse Koch SPECIFICALLY was involved in atrocities, but that one should disbelieve ALL Nazi atrocities. This is obviously an irrational leap of logic.
To obtain a clear picture, it is necessary to see why General Clay was incorrect in his assertion that the ornaments were not made of human skin. The explanation is fairly simple, but in the interest of providing a through refutation, we will examine the historical record with some thoroughness (and in roughly chronological order).
Leniency for Koch
General Clay did indeed feel, in 1948, that Ilse Koch had been unjustly sentenced to a life term the previous year by the international American military court. On September 16, he commuted that sentence to four years' time. As he explained on September 23rd: "There was no convincing evidence that she selected inmates for extermination in order to secure tattooed skin or that she possessed any articles made of human skin."[5]

That was reported in the New York Times, Sept. 24, 1948, p. 3. On the next day, the paper quoted Secretary of the Army Kenneth C. Royall: "Mr. Royall's final word on the fate of the woman who was accused of atrocities, including the use of tattooed human skin to make household articles, was that such charges had not been proved." [6]
This sentence-reduction was rather unpopular, and it was questioned whether she could be retried or resentenced. The U.S. government gave up after a while, declaring that it would wash its hands of the matter. Eventually, she was tried by a German court on charges of her having abused and killed German inmates; her previous trial had included only inmates of other nationalities. In this second trial, she was convicted and sentenced to life, again. She spent the rest of her life in prison until she committed suicide in 1967.
It appears that the reason General Clay concluded that sufficient evidence had not been presented is that a crucial piece of evidence was missing. According to a witness, her family album was bound in skin from a man's chest with a prominent tattoo of a four-masted ship[7] The album, which Koch insisted was bound only in black cloth, was never found.
Additional atrocity charges might have been brought against her in the first trial, but for a technicality in the conduct of the prosecution. This conduct was, in fact, incorrect. A U.S. prosecutor explained, in the Times on October 15th: [8]

The making of lampshades and novelties from human skin and other mass atrocities committed by her could not be judicially established because the majority of Ilse Koch's crimes were committed during the period which the American Army, in violation of Law No. 10, refused to include in its trials. [9]
Law No. 10 indicated that the Allies would consider all crimes committed between1933 and 1945. The order was apparently given by Colonel C.E. Straight and Colonel A.H. Rosenfeld to ignore all Buchenwald crimes committed before Pearl Harbor, though the camp had existed for four years prior.

A week later, General Clay commented on this matter:[10] "My examination of the record, based upon reports which I received from the lawyers, indicated that the most serious charges were based on hearsay and not on factual evidence. For that reason the sentence was commuted." He went on to say:

I hold no sympathy for Ilse Koch. She was a woman of depraved character and ill repute. She had done many things reprehensible and punishable, undoubtedly, under German law. We were not trying her for those things. We were trying her as a war criminal on specific charges.
Note that General Clay makes reference to the fact that he is relying upon the "reports which [he] received from the lawyers." This becomes important later.

In the last days of 1948, a Senate investigation into the Koch case, begun only four days after the commutation of her sentence in September, was completed. The excerpts from that report printed in the Times regarding human-skin atrocities are as follows:[11]
Tattooed skin was carefully cut from bodies of dead inmates, tanned and used for a variety of pseudo-scientific and decorative purposes.
...
As to the human-skin aspects of this case, there is no doubt that tattooed human skin was scraped, tanned, and dried by the pathological departments at Buchenwald. Numerous witnesses testified as to its existence, and three samples of it and a shrunken human head were placed in evidence. These same samples were made exhibits at the hearings before this subcommittee.
One defense witness (Wilhelm) testified that a lamp had been made of skin to his knowledge, and offered hearsay evidence to the fact that Ilse Koch had ordered and had been delivered a lampshade of this sort.
Prosecution witnesses (Titz and Froeboess) testified that they had seen the accused in possession of a skin lampshade, a skin-bound album, and a pair of gloves of human skin. Two defense witnesses (Wilhelm and Biermann) and one prosecution witness (Sitte) testified, from hearsay, that she had possession of articles made of human skin.
The chief witnesses [sic] for the accused was Ilse Koch herself, who specifically denied the charges brought against her and the testimony of the witnesses who had appeared against her.
Secretary Royall, whose previous comment on the subject had been that the tattoo charges "had not been proved," reversed his opinion in the testimony he gave to the committee:

Kenneth C. Royall, Secretary of the Army, said he found it difficult to "understand why they were for reduction in sentence." He admitted military authorities ""may have made a mistake."
The subcommittee also reviewed General Clay's decision to commute the sentence. This provides us with some of the most interesting material, a brief glimpse into why Clay made the decision he did. According to the Times:

In assailing reduction of the sentence originally given to FRAU Koch, who was accused of having men killed so that their tattooed skin might be made into lampshades or other useful curios, the committee expressed the opinion that American military authorities "rendered in good faith" a decision that "no doubt appeared to them to be a proper decision."
But it expressed amazement that the "only written justification" in existence at the time the order was signed by Gen. Lucius D. Clay, the United States Military Commander in Germany, was an "incomplete recapitulation of the evidence" by two civilian attorneys who made a preliminary review.
This document stated that, while Frau Koch did encourage, aid and participate in the common Nazi design, the extent and nature of her participation did not warrant imprisonment for life.
General Clay never disputed any of the above, at least not publicly. Three months later, he announced that it had been decided that she could not be tried by American military courts, and that the trial by German authorities was under consideration.[12]
A few years later, he commented tangentially on the Senate committee's conclusions in his book Decision in Germany: [13]

Among the 1672 trials was that of Ilse Koch, the branded "Bitch of Buchenwald," but as I examined the record I could not find her a major participant in the crimes of Buchenwald. A sordid, disreputable character, she had delighted in flaunting her sex, emphasized by tight sweaters and short skirts, before the long-confined male prisoners, and had developed their bitter hatred. Nevertheless these were not the offenses for which she was being tried and so I reduced her sentence, expecting the reaction which came. Perhaps I erred in judgment but no one can share the responsibility of a reviewing officer. LATER THE SENATE COMMITTEE WHICH UNANIMOUSLY CRITICIZED THIS ACTION HEARD WITNESSES WHO GAVE TESTIMONY NOT CONTAINED IN THE RECORD BEFORE ME. I COULD TAKE ACTION ONLY ON THAT RECORD. [Emphasis added.]
FRAU Koch was indeed later indicted and convicted by the German court. Clay would later state that the German court "had clear jurisdiction." [14]
She was sentenced to life for: "one count of incitement to murder, one of incitement to attempted murder, five of incitement to severe physical mistreatment of prisoners, and two of physical mistreatment."[15]
"The court found no proof that anyone at Buchenwald had been murdered for his tattooed skin, but it expressed no doubt that skin lampshades had been made and that human heads had been shriveled and preserved at the camp."
Let's briefly recapitulate, at this point.
It has never been questioned, not even by FRAU Koch or her lawyers, whether or not human-skin lampshades were made at Buchenwald. The only question has been whether Koch herself actually participated in their manufacture. This is an important point. Three samples of such artifacts were placed into evidence, and were also viewed by the Senate subcommittee.
Two witnesses testified that they themselves had seen Frau Koch in possession of human-skin artifacts. Clay may not have been aware of these witnesses, because he said that the testimony regarding the "most serious charges" was entirely hearsay. Whether that referred to the human-skin charges is unknown. It would seem likely that the charges for murder would be the "most serious charges."
In any case, the attorneys who reviewed the evidence for Clay produced, according to the Senate subcommittee, an "incomplete recapitulation of the evidence."
In other words, Clay was misinformed by his assistants, and Clay went on to write shortly thereafter that "he could take action only on that record" which he was presented with. This is a key point. It is also important to note that this fact is readily available to anyone who simply browses Koch-related stories in the newspapers of the era, or looks up Clay's Decision in Germany.
The German court failed to convict Koch on the charge that she had selected prisoners to be murdered for their skins, but that same court said that there was "no doubt that skin lampshades had been made."

History offers little more about Ilse Koch during her subsequent imprisonment over the next two decades. She committed suicide in 1967. But in 1976, General Clay was supposed to be a speaker at a conference at the George C. Marshall Research Foundation in Virginia. In poor health, he sent last-minute regrets. A month later, he and General Mark W. Clark gave videotaped interviews to a member of the Foundation.
According to Mark Weber, the transcripts of those interviews reveal that General Clay reaffirmed his position of twenty-eight years earlier:;[16]

We tried Ilse Koch. ...She was sentenced to life imprisonment, and I commuted it to three years. And our press really didn't like that. She had been destroyed by the fact that an enterprising reporter who first went into her house had given her the beautiful name, the "Bitch of Buchenwald," and he had found some white lampshades in there which he wrote up as being made out of human flesh.
Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh. But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial.
Similar words were said to Jean Edward Smith in the interview he took:[17]

That was one of the reasons I revoked the death sentence of Ilse Koch. There was absolutely no evidence in the trial transcript, other than she was a rather loathsome creature, that would support the death sentence. I suppose I received more abuse for that than for anything else I did in Germany. Some reporter had callled her the "Bitch of Buchenwald," had written that she had lampshades made out of human skin in her house. And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven that the lampshades were made out of goatskin.

It should be noted that Smith characterized Clay's memory as "extraordinary," saying he "could recall cables twenty-five years old, almost verbatim. No detail was too small to be filed away in his recollection." [18]
But notice the discrepancies: in the Foundation interview, Clay stated that the lampshades were still considered human at the trial. In the Smith interview, he stated that the trial proved " absolutely" that they were not (Presumably he was not aware of the forensic evidence proving that the skin was human.).

Also, in the Foundation interview, he could not even recall how many years he had reduced her sentence to (four).
It is important to realize that the FRAU Koch affair, though big news in the media, was of very little concern to General Clay. His responsibility was to manage the rebuilding of the entire U.S.-occupied German nation between 1945 and his retirement in May 1949. With tens of millions of people to look after, he can be excused for overlooking the details about one war criminal. In Decision in Germany, he makes a point of mentioning that Koch's trial was only one of the 1,672 Dachau trials which he oversaw as reviewing officer. Her irrelevance to his life can be seen in John Backer's biography, Winds of History: [19] nowhere in this book's 300 pages is she even mentioned.
The actual transcripts of the trial are, of course, the only way to settle the question. Obtaining these transcripts is not an easy undertaking. Anyone who wishes to assist in this effort is invited to contact this author.

The important thing is not so much what Holocaust-deniers are saying about Ilse Koch and General Clay as what they are NOT saying. They went to the trouble of digging up an interview at an obscure research foundation from 1976, enlisting the assistance of a senior archivist at the National Archives to do so.

Yet they forgot to mention the important evidence, much more easily uncovered, which indicates that the statements made in this interview (and later in Smith's book) are incorrect or ill-informed.
They forgot to mention that the trial which Clay reviewed did not cover the full period during which Koch was at the camp.
They forgot to mention that Clay was incompletely informed by his assistants, and that he admitted as much in his 1950 book, saying: "I could take action only on that record."
They forgot to mention that a Senate investigatory committee saw, with their own eyes, the very same "three samples" of "tattooed human skin" that Clay says don't exist.
They forgot to mention the conclusion that the subcommittee reached: that "there is no doubt" that human skin was tanned at Buchenwald.
They forgot to mention that there is a forensic report which, based on microscopic analysis and the placement of nipples and navel, concludes that the skin is indeed human.
They forget to mention that the same German court that found her innocent of the charge of murdering anyone for tattooed skin, also declared it indisputable that human-skin artifacts were made.
And all that information is much more readily available than the transcripts of an obscure interview by an obscure organization conducted 28 years after the fact.
Since Holocaust-deniers have gone to so much trouble to find evidence which vaguely supports their thesis, and have not lifted a finger to reveal the evidence to the contrary, the logical conclusion is that they are dishonest.
Readers interested in contemporary accounts of Frau Koch's story may wish to consult the New York Times articles reference herein especially: 4/12/45 p. 5; 7/11/47 p. 6; 8/13/47 p. 14; 8/15/47 p. 5 (first sentencing); 9/28/48 p. 3 (commutation); 9/29/48 p. 14; 10/1/48 p.11; 10/8/48 p.10; 10/9/48 p. 3; 10/15/48 p. 3;10/18/48 p. 22; 10/22/48 p. 5; 12/27/48 pp. 1,12 (Senate Inquiry report);3/23/49 p. 21; 10/18/49 p. 11; 11/29/50 p. 22; and 1/16/51 pp. 1,8. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/forensic.html

Identification of Tattooed Skin Hides

COPY OF DOCUMENT 3423-PS
SEVENTH MEDICAL LABORATORY
APO 403, c/o PM, NEW YORK, N.Y.
Section of Pathology
25 May 1945

SUBJECT: Identification of Tattooed Skin Hides
TO: COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U.S. Army)
(ATTN: JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL)

1. There were submitted to this laboratory section for examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. Givin from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of Case 81 T.J.A.

2. The description follows:
GROSS: Specimen consists of three pieces of skin labeled A.B.C.
PIECE A: Measures 13x13cm., is transparent and shows a woman's head in the center and a sailor with an anchor near the margin.
PIECE B: Measures 14x13cm., is transparent and is a tattoo of several anchors resting on an indefinite black mass. To the right of this mass is a man's head.
PIECE C: Is truncated, measures 44cm. At the base. The upper portion is 30 cm. Long and the sides measure 46 cm. The skin is transparent and shows two nipples in the upper area. These are 16 cm. Apart. From the nipple level to the umbilicus is 23 « cm. A large bird, with a wingspread measuring 28 cm., is present in the center of the skin, upper part. A black dragon, with fire coming from the mouth, measures 28 cm. in length and is present in the center of the skin. To the left of the dragon is a man in a coat of mail, with a sword being apparently stuck in the dragon. Man is approximately 22 cm. in length.
MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of collagen showing occasional epithelial and sweat gland remnants. Granular black pigment granules are seen between some of the bundles.

3. Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three specimens are tattooed human skin.
For the Commanding Officer,
[signed] REUBEN CARES
Ruben Cares
Major M.C., Chief of pathology

Scarecrow
January 30th, 2008, 02:35 PM
Who cares?

RabbitNoMore
January 30th, 2008, 03:57 PM
Gee, more teary eyed testimony from yet another lying kike. Why waste ten thousand words to attempt to convince us that your fable isn't in fact a lie? We all know it is. The math just doesn't add up, it never will, and all the crafty wordsmithing in the universe won't change the fact that the lie is crumbling all around the jew.

Release of jailed hoax deniers, and an intensive forensic investigation of the supposed sites of the supposed holycost are the only things that might convince us to examine this myth more closely. Until then your lie remains easily debunked by critical thinkers anyway, just on the basis that it's illegal to even question the lie in many parts of the White world. A law which is persued vigorously against Whites and only Whites by evil jews like warman.

Save your breath warthog, all your lies, and ill-gotten money won't save you from the avalanche. The avalance of White awakening. Your time in our nation is through.

88

ced smythe
January 30th, 2008, 07:55 PM
Tempted by the title I searched for something solid in a huge pile of manure, I was disappointed of course:

Among the 1672 trials was that of Ilse Koch, the branded "Bitch of Buchenwald," ... A sordid, disreputable character, she had delighted in flaunting her sex, emphasized by tight sweaters and short skirts, before the long-confined male prisoners, and had developed their bitter hatred. Nevertheless these were not the offenses for which she was being tried...

ad absurdum

Slamin2
January 30th, 2008, 08:54 PM
Gee, more teary eyed testimony from yet another lying kike. Why waste ten thousand words to attempt to convince us that your fable isn't in fact a lie? We all know it is. The math just doesn't add up, it never will, and all the crafty wordsmithing in the universe won't change the fact that the lie is crumbling all around the jew.


88

What math would that be?

ced smythe
January 31st, 2008, 05:09 PM
Slamin, you've been ignoring me ever since i asked you to lend me some cash you stingy bastard. T.J.B.

Slamin2
January 31st, 2008, 05:46 PM
Slamin, you've been ignoring me ever since i asked you to lend me some cash you stingy bastard. T.J.B.

Welfare check late again?

ced smythe
January 31st, 2008, 05:58 PM
That's better. I thought you might be an artificial intelligence programme in need of some heuristic tweaks. You put a bait down with your math question in the hope of wasting somebody's time.

Slamin2
January 31st, 2008, 06:04 PM
That's better. I thought you might be an artificial intelligence programme in need of some heuristic tweaks. You put a bait down with your math question in the hope of wasting somebody's time.

Just wanted to see if 88 had any knowledge or was just speaking out of his ass - 99% of posters just deny without knowing what they are denying.

Straw men claims like how could 6 million be gassed, or how could they cremate 4 million bodies at Auschwitz. Basic Auschwitz/Holocaust IQ test.

ced smythe
January 31st, 2008, 06:08 PM
99% of posters just deny without knowing what they are denying.


99% of posters believe not what they want but what they must.

ok, 95%

Prince_Vivid
February 2nd, 2008, 12:08 PM
Who cares?

Interesting point. I was wondering if..let's say..the Holoco$t actually did happen, would any of you feel sorry? And to the jews: How much do you think you are owed?

Fred Streed
February 2nd, 2008, 02:24 PM
Holocaust survivor learns father’s fate
Blah blah blah, snivel, piss and moan, oy vey, same old kike lies and bs, ...



You simple minded ditzy hook nosed kikess, what are you, stoopid? Why are you so worried about what happened back in the 1940s? It is the holocaust that is COMING that you should be worrying your ugly little kikess head over, dahling.

Peter Roberts
February 2nd, 2008, 02:50 PM
It is the holocaust that is COMING that you should be worrying your ugly little kikess head over, dahling.

LOL@fantasy threats from deluded moron.

Darren
February 2nd, 2008, 04:10 PM
LOL@fantasy threats from deluded moron.

I'll exchange you fantasy threats for more fantasy holocaust tales :D.

Fred Streed
February 2nd, 2008, 04:55 PM
LOL@fantasy threats from deluded moron.

Ah Mr. Roberts, 3 posts now. I suppose you are here to straighten out the thinking of us deluded morons? You also gonna enlighten us about race and shit like that?

ced smythe
February 2nd, 2008, 05:14 PM
Interesting point. I was wondering if..let's say..the Holocost actually did happen, would any of you feel sorry?

You sound like a denier. How about you Prince Vivid? Would you feel sorry? Assuming the official story is real.


And to the jews: How much do you think you are owed?

If you know anything about them, you know: Long before the last century jews believed that the whole universe was theirs alone.

faceless
February 2nd, 2008, 07:25 PM
Welfare check late again?

tHAT WAS GOOD!

Prince_Vivid
February 2nd, 2008, 09:52 PM
You sound like a denier. How about you Prince Vivid? Would you feel sorry? Assuming the official story is real.

Oh, certainly not, certainly not. I know that if it were six million of any other race who had been killed they would exhibit no remorse whatsoever--they have gotten millions killed, and never thought twice about it. Of course they never do this directly though, because, as Samuel Roth pointed out in his book--unless they outnumber their enemy or have an unapproachable amount of influence, violence is "unknown to their cringing natures". Powerful cowards.



If you know anything about them, you know: Long before the last century jews believed that the whole universe was theirs alone.

A belief pillared by monotheistic drones, pfttt.

ced smythe
February 3rd, 2008, 09:26 AM
Oh, certainly not, certainly not. I know that if it were six million of any other race who had been killed they would exhibit no remorse whatsoever--they have gotten millions killed, and never thought twice about it. Of course they never do this directly though, because, as Samuel Roth pointed out in his book--unless they outnumber their enemy or have an unapproachable amount of influence, violence is "unknown to their cringing natures". Powerful cowards.
Most of the people here would agree with you but I think that a lot of Whites do feel pity and guilt.

A belief pillared by monotheistic drones, pfttt.
That's inconsistent with your comment above. Roth points out jewish nature clearly. I gave a straightforward answer based on observable behaviour past and present.

And to the jews: How much do you think you are owed?

That's an excellent question, you should ask it in a seperate post. Here is an honest answer from the horses mouth:

"We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155. Harcourt, Brace & Co., New York, 1924).

Prince_Vivid
February 3rd, 2008, 02:09 PM
Most of the people here would agree with you but I think that a lot of Whites do feel pity and guilt.

There's nothing wrong with being compassionate but there must be some demarcation that strictly segregates compassion from insanity. White people are simply..Addicted to guilt.

You sound like a denier.

Of a certainty.

That's inconsistent with your comment above. Roth points out jewish nature clearly. I gave a straightforward answer based on observable behaviour past and present.

You misunderstand me. What I was saying is: The belief that they're the chosen people is supported by many non-jews. And I know that their needs and demands are insatiable but I figured I would try entertaining some phantom of rationality by asking the question.

That's an excellent question, you should ask it in a seperate post.

Yeah, maybe it would be better that way.

ced smythe
February 4th, 2008, 04:46 PM
There's nothing wrong with being compassionate but there must be some demarcation that strictly segregates compassion from insanity. White people are simply..Addicted to guilt.

Addicted is strong, prone yes, some more than others and it's not surprising that a minority resonate insanely due to the emotive pulse. Jews are masters of demagoguery.

Of a certainty.
You are one of the faithful then?


You misunderstand me. What I was saying is: The belief that they're the chosen people is supported by many non-jews. And I know that their needs and demands are insatiable but I figured I would try entertaining some phantom of rationality by asking the question.
Ok understood, your previous remark was laconic and haughty.

phantom of rationality? That's very good.

Prince_Vivid
February 7th, 2008, 02:39 AM
You are one of the faithful then?

A faithful Holocaust denier? Yes.

That's an excellent question, you should ask it in a seperate post. Here is an honest answer from the horses mouth:

"We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155. Harcourt, Brace & Co., New York, 1924).

I'm familiar with it - recently purchased the book on Amazon. He then goes on to say "....a God-world, which it is not in your nature to build."