The police are to be given new stop and search powers (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1091448/Police-given-new-powers-stop-street-demand-ID--refuse-youll-face-jail.html) for people who have entered or left Britain at any point in the past. This is just an another small stepping stone to a police state; any argument about tackling illegal immigration is a load of horseshit, because they'll already be in the f'ing country. The police simply don't have the manpower to deal with them once they're across the borders (which we lost control of a long time ago).

This country needs to riot.

The police are to be given new stop and search powers (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1091448/Police-given-new-powers-stop-street-demand-ID--refuse-youll-face-jail.html) for people who have entered or left Britain at any point in the past. This is just an another small stepping stone to a police state; any argument about tackling illegal immigration is a load of horseshit, because they'll already be in the f'ing country. The police simply don't have the manpower to deal with them once they're across the borders (which we lost control of a long time ago).

This country needs to riot.

Bout time for a good riot I'd say.

A riot is far too easily broken up and normalcy will soon return afterward. What is really needed is systematic revolution by a group of guerrillas.

What is really needed is systematic revolution by a group of guerrillas.

What a coincidence... that thought had crossed my mind too.

Adding this one to my UK police state folder.

Current contents:


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4882600.ece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2085192/Hats-banned-from-Yorkshire-pubs-over-CCTV-fears.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/062608_government_permission.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2194359/A-quarter-of-adults-to-face-%27anti-paedophile%27-tests.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/mar/16/youthjustice.children

It's a shame they took away your guns, because now you're at their mercy with no defense.

A second clause says that people who are stopped 'must produce a valid identity document if required to do so by the Secretary of State'. Failure to do so would be a criminal offence with a maximum penalty of 51 weeks in jail or a £5,000 fine.

Haha, like fucking Nazi Germany. Have to have identity on you at all times. Ha.

Haha, like fucking Nazi Germany. Have to have identity on you at all times. Ha.

Well, we have the same rule here, but it really isn't enforeced.

I really don't see why Americans are so anti-identity card. You think it's some way of the goverment to keep tabs on you or something? Seriously, get a clue, it's just for your own safety, what could it hurt to have your identity card on you? Seriously, you think you'd die or something?

Well for one thing, this new law makes it a lot easier for the government to jail dissidents. Imagine the court case: defendant: "I did show my ID, your honour" - lawyer: "you would say that, but we have two police officers with clean records here who testify that you didn't".

Well for one thing, this new law makes it a lot easier for the government to jail dissidents. Imagine the court case: defendant: "I did show my ID, your honour" - lawyer: "you would say that, but we have two police officers with clean records here who testify that you didn't".

So, that's it...that's everything you've got? It would be easier to get you into jail? Really, I doubt any judge would see that as the push over the edge. Belgium has had this law since the beginning of dawn, and I've never heard of something like that happening.

Well, we have the same rule here, but it really isn't enforeced.

I really don't see why Americans are so anti-identity card. You think it's some way of the goverment to keep tabs on you or something? Seriously, get a clue, it's just for your own safety, what could it hurt to have your identity card on you? Seriously, you think you'd die or something?

That's pretty damn naive sybil. How does an ID card keep you safe? Do you wave it at the police officers before or after they've just shot seven bullets in your face on the tube?
UK ≠ Belgium

That's pretty damn naive sybil. How does an ID card keep you safe? Do you wave it at the police officers before or after they've just shot seven bullets in your face on the tube?
UK ≠ Belgium

No it isn't naive, if you've got nothing to hide, an ID is the best thing to have, it clearly lets you identify yourself toward officers. And why the fuck would a cop shoot you 7 times on the tube unless you're like...raping somebody or shooting somebody yourself...

Don't try to be hard-headed. And don't make up stupid shit that would never happen. Well...it probably does happen, but only if you're doing something seriously wrong yourself, and I'm very sure they would never shoot you 7 times just for waiving your ID in the air :rolleyes:

Hard headed huh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
Shame he didn't have a harder head.

What happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"?
Do you know that along with the back door provision for the controversial ID card scheme made in the queen's speech a provision was also made for inquiries such as the one into the murder of Jean Charles de Menezes to be held behind closed doors out of reach of public scrutiny?

I didn't say the police would shoot you for waving an ID card, I was trying to suggest that even if Mr. Menezes had an ID card it wouldn't have helped because they shot him on sight.

Edit: To correct myself, officers fired eleven shots not seven. Also, they didn't quite shoot on sight, they restrained him and executed him.

Hard headed huh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
Shame he didn't have a harder head.

What happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"?
Do you know that along with the back door provision for the controversial ID card scheme made in the queen's speech a provision was also made for inquiries such as the one into the murder of Jean Charles de Menezes to be held behind closed doors out of reach of public scrutiny?

I didn't say the police would shoot you for waving an ID card, I was trying to suggest that even if Mr. Menezes had an ID card it wouldn't have helped because they shot him on sight.

Edit: To correct myself, officers fired eleven shots not seven. Also, they didn't quite shoot on sight, they restrained him and executed him.

Ok, an ID won't save your life, I never said that either. But the point just is...why not want it? It never HURT anybody to have an ID, did it?

I'm pretty sure it has hurt a lot of people throughout the world to have ID's be they palestinians, romany gypsies, jews, kurds, irish, american, mexican or whatever particular nationality is being persecuted at a given place and time.

This is what the home office says about ID cards:
ID cards are the cornerstone of our national identity scheme, which calls for an easy to use and extremely secure system of personal identification for UK residents.
Each ID card will be unique, and will combine the cardholder’s biometric data with their checked and confirmed identity details - a ‘biographical footprint’. These identity details and the biometrics will be stored on the national identity register. Basic identity information will also be held in a chip on the ID card itself.
The cards will be linked to their owners by unique biometric information (for example, fingerprints). This is needed to ensure that your card is really yours, and to protect you from identity theft.
One issue is what if someone does steal your ID?

Just how difficult a situation would arise for you then?
A more secure card which stores more personal information in the one source will be much more useful than multiple sources of ID from Electricity bill, driver's licence and passport which all have real uses.


The UK already has the highest amount of CCTV surveillance in the world and now they're bringing in a National Identity Management System which civilians will have no choice but to be a part of and are bound by law to keep their registered facts up to date. A national biometric scanner and computer terminal network connected to their big database is going to be used for compulsory ID checks and a lot of the British police force will relish the power.


I just think its too much information to be stored in a database controlled by people with too much power over said information.


Fuck, I'm a British citizen (and an Irish one) and I like to go to Yorkshire quite a bit to drink ale, I don't want to have a biometric ID card to go to Yorkshire and drink ale.

I
One issue is what if someone does steal your ID?

Just how difficult a situation would arise for you then?
A more secure card which stores more personal information in the one source will be much more useful than multiple sources of ID from Electricity bill, driver's licence and passport which all have real uses.


You're ID card isn't you. If it gets stolen, you can just go to city hall have the current one signalled and request a new one. Really not that big of a deal...

And so what if they have all your data electronically? They won't have any more information on you then they have now.
The only difference will be that they can check it more easily if you get checked, and once again IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, IT SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE.

Actually they would have a lot more information about me than they presently have;including up to 10 fingerprints, digitised facial scan and iris scan, current and past UK and overseas places of residence of all residents of the UK throughout their lives and indices to other Government databases — which would allow them to be connected.From wikipedia: Due to the supposed security of the British system, proving that one's identity has been stolen could prove problematic. If a person's biometric information is discovered and exploited by an identity thief the subject has little recourse, since such information by definition cannot be changed or reissued.And although a person is certainly not their ID as far as people are concerned, people will be their ID as far as the scanners and computer databases are concerned. The police will use their own intelligence less and depend on the database more.

The UK government have talked about putting iris scanners in high street shops and biometric identification on cash cards and linking the computer systems of high street shops to the police database for further surveillance.

If you have something to hide, the ID cards could actually make it easier to keep it hidden. Criminals will always figure out ways to forge documents or circumvent security measures.

I don't need to have something to hide to not want the government knowing everything about me. I like privacy and I like freedom, I'm pretty sure those are basic rights.

Edit: I suppose it comes down to whether or not you trust the government, I don't.

Well, we have the same rule here, but it really isn't enforeced.

I really don't see why Americans are so anti-identity card. You think it's some way of the goverment to keep tabs on you or something? Seriously, get a clue, it's just for your own safety, what could it hurt to have your identity card on you? Seriously, you think you'd die or something?
It never HURT anybody to have an ID, did it?

You must be fucking retarded. Don't they teach the history of Europe in Belgian schools?
http://www.edwardvictor.com/Images/JuliusPassport1.jpg

It's not the fact that you have your identity on you, it's the fact that you are required to have it on you, or you will suffer a penalty. Hello, 1939.

if you've got nothing to hide,

Hahahahahaha. It's called privacy.


And why the fuck would a cop shoot you 7 times on the tube unless you're like...raping somebody or shooting somebody yourself...

Or you are protesting the government.....


Don't try to be hard-headed. And don't make up stupid shit that would never happen.

It IS happening again.

You must be fucking retarded. Don't they teach the history of Europe in Belgian schools?
http://www.edwardvictor.com/Images/JuliusPassport1.jpg

It's not the fact that you have your identity on you, it's the fact that you are required to have it on you, or you will suffer a penalty. Hello, 1939.

That was then, now is now. They don't give a penalty, just a warning. Unless ofcourse you decide to be a retard and mouth off against a police officer, then you just deserve it.

Hahahahahaha. It's called privacy.



Or you are protesting the government.....



It IS happening again.


Privacy? So you having a piece of paper on you with some information on it is intrusion of your privacy? But in America they can confiscate your computer/laptop/cellphone without any cause and that is privacy?
If you could choose, having a piece of paper/plastic with some information on it about you, or not having that same piece of paper/plastic, but the government can search your computer/laptop/cellphone, without any cause, shit...I'll take my privacy over your illusion of privacy, any day.

if you are protesting the government, NOT having an ID won't save your life either...

And no, nothing's happening, really, just no...

You, my dear friend sybil, are out of line and quite possibly not as well informed as the moderator of a News forum should be.

On your tangential attack on America:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7758127.stm


Having a card with highly personal data stored on it as I outlined above (I trust you are proficient enough in the English language to read up to 10 fingerprints, digitised facial scan and iris scan, current and past UK and overseas places of residence of all residents of the UK throughout their lives and indices to other Government databases — which would allow them to be connected.
) obviously impedes on privacy.

Although the US does not have a specific national ID card some members of government are trying to bring one in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act

Back to the UK though; you ever hear of echelon or GCHQ? Do you know of how all calls between UK and Ireland are monitored and stored? Or is all this a conspiratorial dream to you?

Back to the ID card scheme, maybe this PDF will be of interest: http://www.wikileaks.org/leak/nis-options-analysis-outcome.pdf


Back to the tangential shit: If you really believe "Nothing is happening" then you're not looking.

You, my dear friend sybil, are out of line and quite possibly not as well informed as the moderator of a News forum should be.

On your tangential attack on America:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7758127.stm


Having a card with highly personal data stored on it as I outlined above (I trust you are proficient enough in the English language to read
) obviously impedes on privacy.

Although the US does not have a specific national ID card some members of government are trying to bring one in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act

Back to the UK though; you ever hear of echelon or GCHQ? Do you know of how all calls between UK and Ireland are monitored and stored? Or is all this a conspiratorial dream to you?

Back to the ID card scheme, maybe this PDF will be of interest: http://www.wikileaks.org/leak/nis-options-analysis-outcome.pdf


Back to the tangential shit: If you really believe "Nothing is happening" then you're not looking.

Basically, it comes down to this...nothing is happening...in Belgium, as always :p. But yeah, the UK/USA are fucked. Didn't know the UK was getting that fucked over though.

And please, don't start to condescend me.

I apologise for being condescending, I was out of line.
I just felt that your retort to 23 about his "Illusion of privacy" was quite condescending to him but enough of that shit.
I think I might start visiting Belgium for beer drinking instead of the UK :)

I apologise for being condescending, I was out of line.
I just felt that your retort to 23 about his "Illusion of privacy" was quite condescending to him but enough of that shit.
I think I might start visiting Belgium for beer drinking instead of the UK :)

Why wouldn't you? Better beer and the pubs stay open till 4-5AM, depending on how many people are there it might stay open all night...unlike London...fuck 11PM, seriously?

Five bucks says France will invade England. They can't very well defend themselves if they're busy oppressing their own citizens, can they?

Basically, it comes down to this...nothing is happening

No, everything is happening. How do you not have a problem with citizens being required to carry ID ?

Why wouldn't you? Better beer and the pubs stay open till 4-5AM, depending on how many people are there it might stay open all night...unlike London...fuck 11PM, seriously?

You should try reading the news (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-470406/Brown-backs-review-24-hour-drinking-laws.html) more often.

I'm pretty sure it has hurt a lot of people throughout the world to have ID's be they palestinians, romany gypsies, jews, kurds, irish, american, mexican or whatever particular nationality is being persecuted at a given place and time.

This is what the home office says about ID cards:

One issue is what if someone does steal your ID?

Just how difficult a situation would arise for you then?
A more secure card which stores more personal information in the one source will be much more useful than multiple sources of ID from Electricity bill, driver's licence and passport which all have real uses.


The UK already has the highest amount of CCTV surveillance in the world and now they're bringing in a National Identity Management System which civilians will have no choice but to be a part of and are bound by law to keep their registered facts up to date. A national biometric scanner and computer terminal network connected to their big database is going to be used for compulsory ID checks and a lot of the British police force will relish the power.


I just think its too much information to be stored in a database controlled by people with too much power over said information.


Fuck, I'm a British citizen (and an Irish one) and I like to go to Yorkshire quite a bit to drink ale, I don't want to have a biometric ID card to go to Yorkshire and drink ale.

This method of thinking will lead to the mark of the beast. ;)